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JohnM

Scottish Independence Referendum

Should Scotland be an independent country?   55 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Scotland be an independent country?

    • Yes
      27
    • No
      28

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1,134 posts in this topic

I'll get to vote in three weeks, and I must admit to feeling pretty anxious as I am genuinely split on which way to vote.

I have no idea which is the more sensible vote, and I dont want patriotism to be my decision maker, like so many people are doing.

Get a coin, choose heads as one side, tails as the other.  Flip the coin and if while it's in the air you hear your brain saying "please be heads" or something similar, regardless of how quiet the voice is, then that's what your subconscious is telling you you really want.  If the coin lands and your brain is still all fluffy clouds then why not just make that your choice...

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Get a coin, choose heads as one side, tails as the other.  Flip the coin and if while it's in the air you hear your brain saying "please be heads" or something similar, regardless of how quiet the voice is, then that's what your subconscious is telling you you really want.  If the coin lands and your brain is still all fluffy clouds then why not just make that your choice...

 

I find this a strangely effective way of finding out what you really want!

 

The whole referendum debate is weighted hugely in favour of the Yes campaign. In pretty much every country a large number of people are usually unhappy with the status quo and have a whole host of grievances. The Yes campaign just has to convince people that things could be better whether in reality it will be or not; they have all the scope and opportunity to be positive and can basically promise what they like. The No campaign in contrast is inevitably negative and can only really talk about how bad things could potentially be if they go with independence. 

 

I'm obviously aware that despite this the Yes campaign are still favourites to lose but they have considerably reduced the gap in the polls. A lot of what I read on Twitter is about this being Scotland's chance for a different future, making it out like it is really likely to bring change which is obviously going to appeal to floating voters who want to make a positive choice. They can also appeal to the opportunity to make history. 

 

However, I think that a lot of it is naive. If they vote independence for instance, they'll still hate their politicians in 10 years time but it'll just be a different set of politicians; there'll still be a majority of the country voting against the winning party; there'll still be a huge gap between rich and poor. It reminds me of the Obama campaign, where people voted for change and were swept up in a sea of positivity and hope for the future. The reality is that 2 years out from him leaving, absolutely nothing has changed and it was never going to. The stakes are potentially much higher for a similarily superficial decision here.

 

Whichever way the vote goes I doubt very much will change for the average Joe but there is obviously more scope for change in the wrong way if they vote for independence. I am actually slightly concerned about what a No vote could mean with a large and passionate nationalist minority feeling aggrieved to still be in the Union. 

 

Sadly I suspect that this is a forerunner to an EU referendum which would be conducted in a similar way with all the benefits going to the campaign to leave. 

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As an England lefty is just hope that the no vote wins. We'll never get rid of the Tories without the Scottish seats.

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As an England lefty is just hope that the no vote wins. We'll never get rid of the Tories without the Scottish seats.

This

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As an England lefty is just hope that the no vote wins. We'll never get rid of the Tories without the Scottish seats.

I think the last 3 labour governments would of still won without the Scottish MP's.  However it does make it harder, and reduces the majority, obviously.

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As an England lefty is just hope that the no vote wins. We'll never get rid of the Tories without the Scottish seats.

wasnt that disproved based on historic results. Or it was shown as having minimal impact.

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Thanks for the advice CKN, I use a similar approach for some decisions, ie. I stop thinking about it and make the decision at the last second based on what feels right.

I think there is definite excitement around voting Yes, as MD puts it, the Better Together campaign could never be sexy or promising dreams will come true. I share a lot of the same concerns as MD sums up in his excellent post.

I suppose I always have the benefit of Dual Nationality and simply being able to move back to England if it all goes belly up!

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Thanks for the advice CKN, I use a similar approach for some decisions, ie. I stop thinking about it and make the decision at the last second based on what feels right.

I think there is definite excitement around voting Yes, as MD puts it, the Better Together campaign could never be sexy or promising dreams will come true. I share a lot of the same concerns as MD sums up in his excellent post.

I suppose I always have the benefit of Dual Nationality and simply being able to move back to England if it all goes belly up!

I'd guess that if the vote is "yes" then citizens of an independent Scotland will enjoy the same access to the rest of the UK as citizens of the Irish Republic do - and vice versa.

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As an England lefty is just hope that the no vote wins. We'll never get rid of the Tories without the Scottish seats.

 

Just give it a rest. This got boring a long time ago.

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If he Scots want to break away from the rest of the UK best of luck to them. Once there gone there gone never to return. Then we will never have this constant stream of news about it ever again.

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Seeing a lot more negative stuff from the YES camp.

 

Not far off saying the Tories will come and eat your babies if you vote no.

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I'd guess that if the vote is "yes" then citizens of an independent Scotland will enjoy the same access to the rest of the UK as citizens of the Irish Republic do - and vice versa.

maybe, i know little of the rights Irish people have tbh

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I'd guess that if the vote is "yes" then citizens of an independent Scotland will enjoy the same access to the rest of the UK as citizens of the Irish Republic do - and vice versa.

Could be interesting as the Scots UK passports would no longer be valid, as they are no longer in the UK.

It could also be problem for Scots who go to Europe as well as Scotland won't be part of the EU.

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Could be interesting as the Scots UK passports would no longer be valid, as they are no longer in the UK.

It could also be problem for Scots who go to Europe as well as Scotland won't be part of the EU.

The UK won't split the day after a yes vote, the timeline is roughly 18 months to first Scottish services running on their own, they'll probably treat passports as a priority as most other services just need a change of nameplate on the door.  The NHS is already split, as are most other services.  The big ones are the military, foreign office and treasury.

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The UK won't split the day after a yes vote, the timeline is roughly 18 months to first Scottish services running on their own, they'll probably treat passports as a priority as most other services just need a change of nameplate on the door.  The NHS is already split, as are most other services.  The big ones are the military, foreign office and treasury.

First of all i wanted Scotland to stay in the union, but as time as gone along i think its best they they go independent.

No way will this go away with a vote to stay in the union all the while Alex Salmond is around. He will never except a vote to stay in the union and will just keep on and on about it.

I don't know what the long term consequences, good or bad there will be for Scotland, but I'm sure Alex Salmond will have a plan B if plan A doesn't work.

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First of all i wanted Scotland to stay in the union, but as time as gone along i think its best they they go independent.

No way will this go away with a vote to stay in the union all the while Alex Salmond is around. He will never except a vote to stay in the union and will just keep on and on about it.

I don't know what the long term consequences, good or bad there will be for Scotland, but I'm sure Alex Salmond will have a plan B if plan A doesn't work.

The Scots will at least be in charge of their own destiny, good or bad.  I personally think they'll struggle for a few years then find their feet as a small but prosperous nation.  They're already taking jobs from England from companies that recognise the flexibility of dealing with a smaller and more pragmatic government structure, I've seen more than a few London companies subtly shift support staff up north in the last year or so just in case there's a Yes vote.

 

The thing I see from this as a northerner is that the North of England really is in much the same situation as Scotland and has far more in common with the Scottish people than the south of England.  The regional assemblies that would have allowed these areas to at least partly adjust their local government to suit local conditions were sabotaged from the very first simply because Prescott was running it against the wishes of the Blairites. If Scotland goes then the disparity of the North against the South of England will be even more apparent, even Labour largely ignore the North now as they know most of their seats there are almost bullet-proof safe seats.

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The Scots will at least be in charge of their own destiny, good or bad. .

Not if they use the £ they won't, they will be hostages to the Bank of England's whims.

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The Scots will at least be in charge of their own destiny, good or bad.  I personally think they'll struggle for a few years then find their feet as a small but prosperous nation.  They're already taking jobs from England from companies that recognise the flexibility of dealing with a smaller and more pragmatic government structure, I've seen more than a few London companies subtly shift support staff up north in the last year or so just in case there's a Yes vote.

 

The thing I see from this as a northerner is that the North of England really is in much the same situation as Scotland and has far more in common with the Scottish people than the south of England.  The regional assemblies that would have allowed these areas to at least partly adjust their local government to suit local conditions were sabotaged from the very first simply because Prescott was running it against the wishes of the Blairites. If Scotland goes then the disparity of the North against the South of England will be even more apparent, even Labour largely ignore the North now as they know most of their seats there are almost bullet-proof safe seats.

Its just my opinion that if the Scots vote yes this could lead to a domino affect of the rest of the UK, and then England being devolved in parts that we would have never thought possible 50 years ago.

Interesting times ahead for the whole of the UK as it is this very day.

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Its just my opinion that if the Scots vote yes this could lead to a domino affect of the rest of the UK, and then England being devolved in parts that we would have never thought possible 50 years ago.

Interesting times ahead for the whole of the UK as it is this very day.

 

I'm not sure I can ever see parts of England being devolved but as for consequences with the rest of the UK it's Northern Ireland that I worry about. Let's be honest England, Wales and Northern Ireland isn't much of a union and the nationalists in NI are bound to think that this is an opportunity for them to see the Union break up totally. The Unionists obviously won't agree and we could see an increase in hostilities. The perception that the UK is basically an English empire would be hard to argue with if 92% of the UK's population is English up from 84% with Scotland in.

 

I'd be sad to see the end of the UK but if Scotland do go I think that we should politically see the end of the Union with further devolution to NI and Wales and I would prefer to see the House of Commons and Lords as a purely English parliament.

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Apparently although Salmond is keen on devolution from England, in Scottish terms he very much a centraliser and this is one reason why so many of the Scots don't trust him. 

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Cameron should announce a hike in the export duty on Buckfast. That'd bring this nonsense to a swift conclusion.

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I think the British media are all pushing the stay-in-the-Union line. They are obviously being prodded by a worried Government, so I hope the Sots vote to quit ... then see what temptations will be offered for them to remain in the UK.

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