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gingerjon

Phoenix RL - the future of RL in London

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From memory the Skolars vs Hemel crowd was the largest of the season other than the game played just before the Challenge Cup final. About 200 speccies higher than a game against an M62 side. Skolars vs Oxford was another bumper crowd.

 

Much as I'm more on your side of the argument here, Hemel's home crowd against Skolars was only 336. Tiny acorns and all that, but I would have hoped for better. 

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You really don't believe this do you? Have you checked out third tier crowds? What was Hemel,v,Skolars "derby" crowds last year then? Such money spinners that there's enough in the bank to afford Championship salary cap??

 

How well did Oldham, Rochdale and Swinton in traditional areas do on their third tier derby crowds?? They managed an average of 800 a match in 2010. In 20 years time will those "derbies" see those clubs thriving?

 

Ever the pessimist Parky, get a little hope in your life.

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Much as I'm more on your side of the argument here, Hemel's home crowd against Skolars was only 336. Tiny acorns and all that, but I would have hoped for better. 

The same fixture at New River was 350. Oxford's visit was 409.

 

Against Rochdale it was 343.

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If we can entice approx 10 new teams at this level (not easy I know -but Manchester,Leicester and Coventry have been mentioned)then we could have a northern and southern championship1.The biggest issue at most levels of semi-professional and amateur level is thaeamount of travelling involved.Soth Wales v Gateshead just dosen,t make sense -not just from a cost point of view,but also the time involved.

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If we can entice approx 10 new teams at this level (not easy I know -but Manchester,Leicester and Coventry have been mentioned)then we could have a northern and southern championship1.The biggest issue at most levels of semi-professional and amateur level is thaeamount of travelling involved.Soth Wales v Gateshead just dosen,t make sense -not just from a cost point of view,but also the time involved.

Absolutely.

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agreed

very trite

IT'S LONDON ZOMBIES FOR MINE EDDIE

Should have gone to London Wanderers after the Quinze era, not that it would have made a difference.

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If we can entice approx 10 new teams at this level (not easy I know -but Manchester,Leicester and Coventry have been mentioned)then we could have a northern and southern championship1.The biggest issue at most levels of semi-professional and amateur level is thaeamount of travelling involved.Soth Wales v Gateshead just dosen,t make sense -not just from a cost point of view,but also the time involved.

 

Completely agree. It's a very big hurdle to get over. But once we are over it the clubs would save a helluva lot of $$$$$$.

 

North

 

Gateshead

Hunslet

Oldham

York

?

?

?

?

 

South

 

Coventry

Gloucester

Hemel

North London

Oxford

South Wales

?

?

 

Could two conferences of eight be feasible? With joint play-offs and Grand Final. It would really save on $$$, but would still be a great league I think.

 

Neath to Gateshead: 352 miles, 5 hours 23 minutes.

 

Neath to North London: 196 miles, 3 hours 13 minutes

Gateshead to Wrexham: 193 miles, 3 hours 11 minutes.

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London should have been given far more support and promotion before they were allowed to wither on the Vine.

 

Its a lot easier to build on the foundations you have than keep restarting again and again. IMO

Maybe they should have run the club properly from within as well. That would have helped considerably.

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There are nowhere near enough players, fans, investors or media interest in London to support 3 KPC1 clubs. You'd be cannibalising Skolars and Hemel to create a third team and thereby re-creating the exact same problems we see in the north where too many small clubs are fighting over the same resources.

You don't grow by throwing money all over the shop, you focus your resources in a way that strengthens and builds upon what you've already got.

There are plenty of rugby players in london if you think outside the box....

If its a third party adding money thats more money into rl that wasnt there before!!

Didnt Fulham generate large crowds in div2?

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There are plenty of rugby players in london if you think outside the box....

If its a third party adding money thats more money into rl that wasnt there before!!

Didnt Fulham generate large crowds in div2?

 

 Fulham were the highest supported team in Division 2 in their first season and 4th overall in the league

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There are plenty of rugby players in london if you think outside the box....

If its a third party adding money thats more money into rl that wasnt there before!!

Didnt Fulham generate large crowds in div2?

They did, but they soon dried up with yo-yoing between the divisions.

If they'd have entered at the Huyton or Doncaster playing standard, which is more the level this proposed club is aiming at, then they'd have probably attracted bottom of div 2 crowds.

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The document has been produced by someone called Steve Newcombe. That name rings a bell - anyone any ideas?

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They did, but they soon dried up with yo-yoing between the divisions.

If they'd have entered at the Huyton or Doncaster playing standard, which is more the level this proposed club is aiming at, then they'd have probably attracted bottom of div 2 crowds.

Whats interesting here is you start with fact then turn to opinion.....

The fact will do for me, big crowds, dwindled because of p&r enough said!

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Good luck to them, as long as they don't use Phoenix as their name.

 

Yes. They should park that one.

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There are nowhere near enough players, fans, investors or media interest in London to support 3 KPC1 clubs. You'd be cannibalising Skolars and Hemel to create a third team and thereby re-creating the exact same problems we see in the north where too many small clubs are fighting over the same resources.

 

You don't grow by throwing money all over the shop, you focus your resources in a way that strengthens and builds upon what you've already got.

 

London has over 8 million people. If these people want to start a team in the South West as against Skolars in the north east and Broncos also north of the river and Hemel in the suburbs the more power to them. Over 8 million and a geographical area that is huge. It can flame and burn out or take hold and prosper. The game will either prosper ot maintain the status quo depending on which scenario plays out. It seems to be a no brainer to support the initiative and we will see where it leads.

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What's wrong with Phoenix?

trite and tacky

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How about Fulham RLFC? B) 

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Doing this causes real damage to the other clubs. Doing nothing would allow resources to be focused on the two clubs who have shown themselves to be well run and forward thinking.

 

It's a long shot this new club will ever get up and running in CC1 but if they did I really dont think they'd be impinging on the other 2. How many people travel from South West London to watch the Skolars? Not a lot I'd guess. How many people travel from South West London to watch the Stags? None? As for sponsorship - how many of the Stags' current sponsors would be interested in ditching them and sponsoring Phoenix instead? None. That'd go for the main Skolars sponsors too.

So...a new Phoenix club wouldnt take many fans off the other two - indeed, they would give them a reasonable away support once or twice a season as a bonus & it wouldnt take sponsorship off the other two. The South East is a huge area with many millions of people, it can support several small CC1 level clubs. Unfortunately it doesnt seem able to support one full time professional club but that's a different issue.

The only problem would be the player pool but I'm sure that is not an insurmountable issue. I'm sure there'll probably be a surplus of players for a few years now the Broncos have shut their academy. Plus the RL will definitely start up a new one if the Broncos are toast.The players wont be of the same calibre no doubt but I'm sure it'd be capable of producing CC1 players.

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London has over 8 million people. If these people want to start a team in the South West as against Skolars in the north east and Broncos also north of the river and Hemel in the suburbs the more power to them. Over 8 million and a geographical area that is huge. It can flame and burn out or take hold and prosper. The game will either prosper ot maintain the status quo depending on which scenario plays out. It seems to be a no brainer to support the initiative and we will see where it leads.

No brainer is the right word for it.

 

I love how the people who fetishise the 'small clubs are the strength of our game' idea are so keen on recreating that failed model in London.

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No brainer is the right word for it.

 

I love how the people who fetishise the 'small clubs are the strength of our game' idea are so keen on recreating that failed model in London.

Far less of a failed model than the current "Let's have a SL club in London that moves around every 3-4 years and never builds a local following".

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Far less of a failed model than the current "Let's have a SL club in London that moves around every 3-4 years and never builds a local following".

Who, apart from Dave Hughes, Gus Mackay and Nigel Wood, has said that that is a good idea? No-one.

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Who, apart from Dave Hughes, Gus Mackay and Nigel Wood, has said that that is a good idea? No-one.

Supporting ideas that make the nomadic existance an inevitability comes to much the same thing.

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Supporting ideas that make the nomadic existance an inevitability comes to much the same thing.

Solid argument you've got there.

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