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gingerjon

Phoenix RL - the future of RL in London

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Solid argument you've got there.

 

Moving to a new location with no team, 2 backroom staff, no academy, no assetts and tiny and dwindling support base will just see exactly the same drama 2-3 years down the line.

 

And this is assuming that anyone wants them as tenants and somebody is interested in funding them. Both very much in doubt.

 

Still oblivion is better than being a small club, isn't it?

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Moving to a new location with no team, 2 backroom staff, no academy, no assetts and tiny and dwindling support base will just see exactly the same drama 2-3 years down the line.

 

And this is assuming that anyone wants them as tenants and somebody is interested in funding them. Both very much in doubt.

 

Still oblivion is better than being a small club, isn't it?

Where did I say that? What I said was that London RL does not have the resources for 3 KPC1 clubs, and that adding a third will do nothing but damage the two already existing clubs. But then, you're just doing your usual thing of making one statement and then changing it as you go along. Like in the cross-code forum, where you got your a*se handed to you....

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Didn't Hunslet have an official Phoenix identity when they reformed in the 70s?

Well they were called New Hunslet for about five seasons, not sure if the phoenix-type thing on the badge was connected to the relaunch though.

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Well they were called New Hunslet for about five seasons, not sure if the phoenix-type thing on the badge was connected to the relaunch though.

 

You have to assume it was

 

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Where did I say that? What I said was that London RL does not have the resources for 3 KPC1 clubs, and that adding a third will do nothing but damage the two already existing clubs. But then, you're just doing your usual thing of making one statement and then changing it as you go along. Like in the cross-code forum, where you got your a*se handed to you....

Only in your mind did I get my ###### "handed to me". As usual any rabidly anti-union statement will get "likes" and any attempt to discuss subjects reasonably will be considered "getting your ###### handed to you". A function of who posts in that sub-forum rather than any measurement of rational argumentation.

 

Now if we try to tackle this one logically. London does not have two KPC1 sides at present so you are way off to begin with. Hemel is not in London and not considered to be in London by anyone other than RL fans with a poor sense of logical geography. Now Oxford and Hemel joining KPC1 did not cause a crisis at Skolars, they, in fact, had a rather good season.

 

So why should a West London side suddenly create a crisis when West London is even further away than Hemel? There is no reasoning behind your "mustn't spread resources too thinly" argument. London is a city that is getting on for twice the size of Yorkshire. It's like arguing that you can't have a side in Sheffield because there is already one in Leeds.

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. Hemel is not in London and not considered to be in London by anyone other than RL fans with a poor sense of logical geography. 

 

 

 

This, this, a thousand times this. If Hemel was in London it wouldn't have cost me the thick end of £20 for a return to Euston at the weekend...

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No brainer is the right word for it.

 

I love how the people who fetishise the 'small clubs are the strength of our game' idea are so keen on recreating that failed model in London.

 

Do you mean like Featherstone, Halifax, Castleford, Hull KR, Huddersfield pre Davy, Widnes, Salford pre Koukash, the present Crusaders, Hemel who just joined the pro ranks and built a new stand, Batley who got to the Championship final or Sheffield who from ceasing to exist a very few years ago are now repeat championship winners. Also it would seem to me that the failed model at Skolars has a much better long term future than the mega successful, all bells and whistles, super dooper SL franchise, mutton masquerading as lamb Broncos. 

 

Get over it, RL in the UK is a small team operation at the top and a smaller team operation lower down. The likes of Man U and Arsenal we will never see ever and those who think along emulating such soccer behemoths are the true fantasists and are truly operating on reduced mental capacity.

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Strange that Hemel's A and junior sides play in London leagues. Perhaps someone should go and logically explain geography to them.

 

It seems bizarre to suggest a comparison of resources between Skolars/Hemel and Sheffield/London. Between the former there is one amateur club sort of between them in St Albans. With the other there is all of the heavy woollen district and Wakey/Cas/Fev even before considering the clubs in South Leeds.

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Do you mean like Featherstone, Halifax, Castleford, Hull KR, Huddersfield pre Davy, Widnes, Salford pre Koukash, the present Crusaders, Hemel who just joined the pro ranks and built a new stand, Batley who got to the Championship final or Sheffield who from ceasing to exist a very few years ago are now repeat championship winners. Also it would seem to me that the failed model at Skolars has a much better long term future than the mega successful, all bells and whistles, super dooper SL franchise, mutton masquerading as lamb Broncos. 

 

Get over it, RL in the UK is a small team operation at the top and a smaller team operation lower down. The likes of Man U and Arsenal we will never see ever and those who think along emulating such soccer behemoths are the true fantasists and are truly operating on reduced mental capacity.

 

Exactly.  We must keep rugby league to ourselves.

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Why not copy the poor relations at Leigh Sports Village and choose Genesis. If this idea is to take a bankrupt Broncos, buy the name and assets and parachute in at C1 level ala Crusaders, I'd have no problem seeing West London Broncos form as a fan-owned club. However, if they just want to form a club, they're welcome to join the Entry League like the rest if us and build up slowly through the four divisions you have to play through to get there. No special treatment.

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Why not copy the poor relations at Leigh Sports Village and choose Genesis. If this idea is to take a bankrupt Broncos, buy the name and assets and parachute in at C1 level ala Crusaders, I'd have no problem seeing West London Broncos form as a fan-owned club. However, if they just want to form a club, they're welcome to join the Entry League like the rest if us and build up slowly through the four divisions you have to play through to get there. No special treatment.

I don't think Crusaders did buy any assetts or the name. Crusaders RL went bust and North Wales Crusaders was set up in their place. NWC had little or nothing to do with Crusaders RL. Similar story with South Wales Scorpions.

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Strange that Hemel's A and junior sides play in London leagues. Perhaps someone should go and logically explain geography to them.

 

I daresay that if there was a Hertfordshire league then they would not do so. Rugby league sides have often played in competitions outside their country, Workington even won the Lancashire Cup. Is Workington in Lancashire?

 

Come to think of it Broncos have played in the Lancashire cup. Perhaps their potential demise might be a good thing. ;) We have too many teams in Lancashire already.

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I daresay that if there was a Hertfordshire league then they would not do so. Rugby league sides have often played in competitions outside their country, Workington even won the Lancashire Cup. Is Workington in Lancashire?

 

Come to think of it Broncos have played in the Lancashire cup. Perhaps their potential demise might be a good thing. ;) We have too many teams in Lancashire already.

 

It must have happened that there were Lancashire Cup ties between non-Lancs sides.  Carlisle v Fulham, something like that.

 

London had players turn out for both Yorkshire and Lancashire during the brief revival of County of Origin.

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The same fixture at New River was 350. Oxford's visit was 409.

 

Against Rochdale it was 343.

I thought you said it was 200 more in your previous post. Or have I lost the thread of your post?

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I don't think Crusaders did buy any assetts or the name. Crusaders RL went bust and North Wales Crusaders was set up in their place. NWC had little or nothing to do with Crusaders RL. Similar story with South Wales Scorpions.

 

This was before Championship One expansion.  Last year a framework was put in place that clubs wouldn't be parachuted into a semi-pro league, they had to build up from the bottom.  The lowest open age level in London is the London & South East Entry League and that's where they'd have to apply.

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Whats interesting here is you start with fact then turn to opinion.....

The fact will do for me, big crowds, dwindled because of p&r enough said!

 

It's not really that interesting.

 

Just for accuracy my first statement started with an opinion - I agreed that they generated large crowds - and ended with an opinion - that the crowds dried up because of p&r; they might have reduced because people became bored with rugby league.

My second sentence was an opinion on the probablity of low crowds had Fulham bought Huyton- or Doncaster-standard players instead of ex-Widnes ones and played in a small and very basic stadium. Which is where London Phoenix come in.

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Why not copy the poor relations at Leigh Sports Village and choose Genesis. If this idea is to take a bankrupt Broncos, buy the name and assets and parachute in at C1 level ala Crusaders, I'd have no problem seeing West London Broncos form as a fan-owned club. However, if they just want to form a club, they're welcome to join the Entry League like the rest if us and build up slowly through the four divisions you have to play through to get there. No special treatment.

Errmmm maybe in union buuuutttt,

You canny pay amateurs in this code oh no, quite ironic!!

CC1 is the lowest point you can pay a match fee!!

And therefore would be starting from the bottom!

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It's not really that interesting.

Just for accuracy my first statement started with an opinion - I agreed that they generated large crowds - and ended with an opinion - that the crowds dried up because of p&r; they might have reduced because people became bored with rugby league.

My second sentence was an opinion on the probablity of low crowds had Fulham bought Huyton- or Doncaster-standard players instead of ex-Widnes ones and played in a small and very basic stadium. Which is where London Phoenix come in.

Whichever way you look at it they got decent enough crowds to support semi pro footy,

P&R is bad for attendances, player contracts and sponsorship, how this is overcome is yet to be solved!

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Errmmm maybe in union buuuutttt,

You canny pay amateurs in this code oh no, quite ironic!!

CC1 is the lowest point you can pay a match fee!!

And therefore would be starting from the bottom!

CC1 is not the lowest place you can pay a match fee. The old RLC leagues were always "open" rather than "amateur" and I'd imagine that their various successor leagues were the same.

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This was before Championship One expansion.  Last year a framework was put in place that clubs wouldn't be parachuted into a semi-pro league, they had to build up from the bottom.  The lowest open age level in London is the London & South East Entry League and that's where they'd have to apply.

I'm not so sure that this is true. Certainly clubs have always been able to "skip" the entry leagues if they are deemed to be strong enough. Clubs have also been promoted from entry league to regional premier, sometimes mid-season.

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I'm not so sure that this is true. Certainly clubs have always been able to "skip" the entry leagues if they are deemed to be strong enough. Clubs have also been promoted from entry league to regional premier, sometimes mid-season.

 

Only going on what I was told directly by London RFL.  No more favours, you have to start at the bottom.  You can get promotions and so forth by being strong, well-organised and well-funded.  However, still you have to start in the Entry League,

 

To answer the other poster, even if it were strictly amateur, you could hoover up the best talent around through having training in Central London, providing decent stash (training kit, club polo and a hoodie) and paying for players' matchday expenses.  If you had five guys willing to put £1,000 in a season, plus chasing sponsors, I think you'd very quickly put together one of the best teams in London.

 

There's talent out there, some are semi-pro worthy, but they don't want to waste their time.  If you live in, say, Bexleyheath, it's an absolutely headache to get over to North London after work to train to be semi-pro, Hemel's even worse.  I think there's enough talent south of the river to have a South London semi-pro side, it's just there needs to be investment up front from somebody to get the ball rolling.

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Only going on what I was told directly by London RFL.  No more favours, you have to start at the bottom.  You can get promotions and so forth by being strong, well-organised and well-funded.  However, still you have to start in the Entry League,

 

Fair enough but it would surprise me if it applied to someone bringing money or a significant following along with them. Oxford had never kicked a ball in anger before joining CC1 and they did more than okay in KPC1.

 

No do I imagine that if Bulls were made to rejoin the leagues that they would be in the bottom division of the Pennine League.

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CC1 is not the lowest place you can pay a match fee. The old RLC leagues were always "open" rather than "amateur" and I'd imagine that their various successor leagues were the same.

Cc1 is the lowest place you can pay a match fee,

Rlc is dead

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