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TheTerminator

Nelson Mandela - other subjects

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24 hour news does not improve the coverage or standards it simply spreads it thinly.

 

I hope that the factions within his own family don't taint his memory.

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Mandela wanted to make the world a better place. And cutting short a broadcast of 'Mrs Brown's Boys' shows that even death is no obstacle to him.

 

Cutting short Mres Brown's Boys is just another of his achievements

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Cutting short Mres Brown's Boys is just another of his achievements

 

Possibly his finest. :D

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At least they haven't cancelled this weekend's sport, which they did when Diana Spencer died.

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But it is up to us to remember the most important thing he fought for.

Mandela wouldn't say 'don't bother to vote'. He wouldn't say 'stuff politics'. He wouldn't call for change then sit back and wait for it to happen by itself, like Russell Brand.

Vote, every chance you get. Fight, argue, persist. Be free, just as hard as you can be.

Maybe then Nelson Mandela can be left to rest in peace.

That has been noted!

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And the odds of Idris Elba winning best actor Oscar now?

 

De Klerk is so undervalued on the down turn of aparteid it's unbelievable. In all respect if it wasn't for him South Africa nay have waited almost a  decade to "see sense". Botha bottled it. Offer certain restrictions and Mandela said no. Extremely humbling that De Klerk then served UNDER Mandela when he was elected.

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Mandela wanted to make the world a better place. And cutting short a broadcast of 'Mrs Brown's Boys' shows that even death is no obstacle to him.

 

I seem to remember that the BBC cut into the Antiques Roadshow when Mandela was released from prison. That really upset some people.

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And the odds of Idris Elba winning best actor Oscar now?

 

De Klerk is so undervalued on the down turn of aparteid it's unbelievable. In all respect if it wasn't for him South Africa nay have waited almost a  decade to "see sense". Botha bottled it. Offer certain restrictions and Mandela said no. Extremely humbling that De Klerk then served UNDER Mandela when he was elected.

yes

I feel strongly about that myself

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And the odds of Idris Elba winning best actor Oscar now?

 

De Klerk is so undervalued on the down turn of aparteid it's unbelievable. In all respect if it wasn't for him South Africa nay have waited almost a  decade to "see sense". Botha bottled it. Offer certain restrictions and Mandela said no. Extremely humbling that De Klerk then served UNDER Mandela when he was elected.

FWIW Mandela was pretty scathing of De Klerk in his autobiography.

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FWIW Mandela was pretty scathing of De Klerk in his autobiography.

But wouldn't have been President without him................

 

 

to an extent anyway.

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But wouldn't have been President without him................

 

 

to an extent anyway.

Hard to say. Mandela said he dragged his feet and negotiated in bad faith. Curiously he prefered Botha.

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Hard to say. Mandela said he dragged his feet and negotiated in bad faith. Curiously he prefered Botha.

Does sound strange, yet Botha gave restrictions he didn't acceptand was recognised as a political racist yet De Klerk negotiated, and Mandela allowed him to serve under him.

 

 

Seems as straightforward as a day at Red Hall.

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a friend got me thinking today when he told me he believed Nelson Mandela was very similar to Gerry Adams. I'm not sure what I think

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Personally I dont think he is/was this great Saint the media have painted of him. He had a number of flaws and made some big errors both politically and the way he treated his family, especially his first wife. He also was the head of an ANC party that was willing to use violence and as far as I know didnt condemn them actions but neither did he order any attacks. I just picture him as a typical politician who did things in any way he could to get things done, even if they sometimes were not morally correct. And like I said he has admitted he made some grave errors and no doubt he had some burdens that he carried for his whole life. But to say he was a Terrorist for me is wrong.  Mandela is really just a human being who like all of us who made mistakes and some decisions that he will always regret. But the way the media carry on is just so way over the top. But thats typical of the media

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Personally I dont think he is/was this great Saint the media have painted of him. He had a number of flaws and made some big errors both politically and the way he treated his family, especially his first wife. He also was the head of an ANC party that was willing to use violence and as far as I know didnt condemn them actions but neither did he order any attacks. I just picture him as a typical politician who did things in any way he could to get things done, even if they sometimes were not morally correct. And like I said he has admitted he made some grave errors and no doubt he had some burdens that he carried for his whole life. But to say he was a Terrorist for me is wrong. Mandela is really just a human being who like all of us who made mistakes and some decisions that he will always regret. But the way the media carry on is just so way over the top. But thats typical of the media

The ANC saw no option, after Sharpeville, other than armed struggle. Political options were closed off, the regime was increasingly violent and international political pressure was very limited. Interestingly, many of the key 'Generals' of Umkhonto we Sizwe were white - Joe Slovo, Ronnie Kasrils, Marion Sparg....

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  Mandela is really just a human being who like all of us who made mistakes and some decisions that he will always regret. 

I think to say or imply Nelson Mandela was like all of us is a long way from the truth.  A remarkable man who had a genuine and lasting impact on the lives of tens of millions, a man who commanded the respect of his allies and opponents and a man who realised the importance of understanding and forgiveness over retribution.

A lot of people in a lot of places could do well to try and follow his example.

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Personally I dont think he is/was this great Saint the media have painted of him. He had a number of flaws and made some big errors both politically and the way he treated his family, especially his first wife. He also was the head of an ANC party that was willing to use violence and as far as I know didnt condemn them actions but neither did he order any attacks. I just picture him as a typical politician who did things in any way he could to get things done, even if they sometimes were not morally correct. And like I said he has admitted he made some grave errors and no doubt he had some burdens that he carried for his whole life. But to say he was a Terrorist for me is wrong.  Mandela is really just a human being who like all of us who made mistakes and some decisions that he will always regret. But the way the media carry on is just so way over the top. But thats typical of the media

 

He was deputy head at the time IIRC. AFAIK Oliver Tambo was actually the head.

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There's always an apologist for Thatcher. BBC World at One ("Tories on 4" I call it) were at it yesterday. She could have done a lot more to remove apartheid, she didn't.  Denis's companies had huge interests in South Africa. Do the Math as they say today.

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I think to say or imply Nelson Mandela was like all of us is a long way from the truth.  A remarkable man who had a genuine and lasting impact on the lives of tens of millions, a man who commanded the respect of his allies and opponents and a man who realised the importance of understanding and forgiveness over retribution.

A lot of people in a lot of places could do well to try and follow his example.

I totally agree with that, and I would just add that he was a genuine leader who was prepared to take his party where it probably thought it would never go, not least in embracing the Springboks at the 1995 World Cup, but also away from the example that had been set by Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe.

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I totally agree with that, and I would just add that he was a genuine leader who was prepared to take his party where it probably thought it would never go, not least in embracing the Springboks at the 1995 World Cup, but also away from the example that had been set by Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe.

The ANC was never going to go the way of Zanu-PF. It was always a multiracial, multi-ethnic and multi-tribal - one read of the Freedom Charter dispels that.

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The ANC was never going to go the way of Zanu-PF. It was always a multiracial, multi-ethnic and multi-tribal - one read of the Freedom Charter dispels that.

Fortunately it didn't. But it's precisely because of the multiplicity of ethnic groups in South Africa that there was a danger of conflict, regardless of what the Freedom Charter might say. Tyrants tend not to take much notice of such documents, if and when they get into power.

 

Mandela's achievement was to lead his nation away from that possibility.

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