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Keighley Cougars plan £5M stadium.

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Actually I think if Cougars had never existed then Keighley would be just another soccer town. I don't really think that there would be any benefit to Bradford in that.

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TBF Warrington are building stand for stand maybe thats the way forward, you are right though they should try to get as much funding as they can, a link up with the bulls would make it easier as their feeder club though!

Should we agree to disagree?

Is there an architectural picture link anywhere?

 

The proposal is to redevelop the ground piecemeal over a long term time frame with the stand as the first step.

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The proposal is to redevelop the ground piecemeal over a long term time frame with the stand as the first step.

What would be the advantage if Keighley get relegated which could well be a possibility?

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You were on about TV deals and the like?

Also RL summer sport RU and PL winter? therefore you have contradicted yourself by saying PL is a rival to RL?

 

5000 fans once upon a time......and the fairy-tale ends there.......

 

From your last point you are trying to sound oppressed but in reality £5mill is too much!

Stags built a stand for a nominal amount, maybe keighley should follow suit!

 

One stand should be enough for the 1000, any additional funding to the broncos for their 8000 fans! 

 

RU plays autumn internationals and summer Lions tours in direct competition with RL and premier league plays from Aug to Nov, the climax of the RL season and from February to May, the launch and start of the RL season. Baseball finishes it's regular season in the 1st week of October leaving the NFL free rein for Oct, Nov,Dec and January.

 

The dream ends at 1,000 fans. if Keighley get a decent team and a decent stadium I am confident they will at least double the 1000 and maybe more. The Bulls however can kiss the 15,000 average goodbye forever. Their attendance decline over the last few years is precipitous and should be a huge cause for concern. They have more problems to worry about than some mythical threat from a resurgent Cougars.

 

Most of the funding or Keighley's project seems to be planned from grants, probably National or European and privately raised capital. The council involvement will not be the major share of the cost. Why should the Bulls have any part of that ?

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What would be the advantage if Keighley get relegated which could well be a possibility?

 

 

A decent ground is a decent ground. The ground would still be an asset. The Bulls played at Odsal when in the 2nd Division and would continue to play there when, sorry, if they get relegated or demoted for financial failure.

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A decent ground is a decent ground. The ground would still be an asset. The Bulls played at Odsal when in the 2nd Division and would continue to play there when, sorry, if they get relegated or demoted for financial failure.

If they were to be demoted it would have already happened, they are just too valuable to go down!

Just 2 questions, you think Keighley can get back to 5000 but you don't think Bradford can get back to 15000? In your opinion why is that?

(I think Bradford will recover to around 10-12k when they are back in the top 8 Keighley will be around 1k for my lifetime)

Secondly are you seriously saying they are spending 5 mill on 1 stand and you think that's value for money? ?

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If they were to be demoted it would have already happened, they are just too valuable to go down!

 

They were. Whether or not, they are now is another matter. They are no longer a "big 4" side.

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If they were to be demoted it would have already happened, they are just too valuable to go down!

Just 2 questions, you think Keighley can get back to 5000 but you don't think Bradford can get back to 15000? In your opinion why is that?

(I think Bradford will recover to around 10-12k when they are back in the top 8 Keighley will be around 1k for my lifetime)

Secondly are you seriously saying they are spending 5 mill on 1 stand and you think that's value for money? ?

 

It was an option to demote them both times that the went into financial difficulties. If/when p and r returns in 2015 unless they sort out their finances and greatly increase the strength of their team they will be in the mix for a relegation spot. Too big to fail eh. RBS, GM, AIG, Chrysler, Northern Rock used to be in that group. What happened to them?

 

1. I didn't say 5,000, I said 2 to 3,000, to be exact I said they could at least double the current 1,000 ad maybe more. 

 

2. 15,000 was the absolute zenith of Bradford's attendances when they were truly a dominant team winning titles and cups for fun. Since they stopped dominating many of the fans have jumped ship and there is nothing to suggest that Bradford are going to regain anything like their former prominence anytime soon. in fact, didn't they just make several backroom staff redundant ?

 

The whole ground development scheme is budgeted for 5 million. How much of that is for the redesign and build of the stand using the existing steelwork I couldn't say but what of it. Keighley are planning to do it and good luck to them, the little engine that might.

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Stop feeding the troll. I'd like to say he doesn't have a clue but he does, unfortunately he'll claim this is RL discussion when in reality he's here to wind people up for his own amusement.

Keighley will never become Bradford's feeder club in his lifetime. Rightly or wrongly the people of KLY can't stand the city on the whole. They're extremely strange people of which I'm qualified to say so.

From all the DR we witnessed last year their wasn't a resurgence in crowds at any "feeder" club, if KLY were to ever become the Bulls feeder club that 1000 people would drop again. People In the town would not flock to see Sammut play two games in a Cougar top for example, he'd probably be the most heckled player on the pitch.

I might be on my own here but I always keep an eye out for the Bulls results even though they've never been an actual rival. A smIle to my face and a twinkle in my eye appears every time they lose which will never change to the day I die.

That's tribalism in a nutshell. The greatest strength and weakness of our game.

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It is now my opinion Yipyee's posts are trolling of the highest order. On a thread regarding the positive decision to expand and improve Cougar Park he feel's the good people of Keighley should instead forward the money to the Bulls or Broncos etc instead of towards their own community interests. What a fookin* idiot he/she is.

 

* I accept the punishment whatever that is. Christmas off not reading some of this utter tripe would be worth it.

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The dream ends at 1,000 fans. if Keighley get a decent team and a decent stadium I am confident they will at least double the 1000 and maybe more.The Bulls however can kiss the 15,000 average goodbye forever. Their attendance decline over the last few years is precipitous and should be a huge cause for concern. They have more problems to worry about than some mythical threat from a resurgent Cougars.

 

Oh dear!

 

Anyway one Bulls fan once set out nicely how the games powerbase in Bradford is largely centered on south Bradford and Odsal where the professional AND amateur game is largely based. Fans came from all around and afar too, for Bullmania and to watch a side of well paid stars in a business model that eventually failed. For Bullmania read Cougarmania. Both failed business models based on hyped up marketing. You can't have it both ways, If those days are over they are over for both clubs.

 

As for the stadium it is neither funded nor built, but you can't blame any club for having a go for whatever money they can find. Leigh's ground was developed as a general regeneration project so it had to have multi-use to get at the money. As a home for the RL club the attendances have averaged 1,900. Doncasters Keepmoat was built mainly for soccer inc. the famous Ladies team and Doncasters attendances there have been an average of 900.

 

Neither figure shows much of an improvement if any at all never mind a reduction from the days before the clubs managed modern stadium, but there has been a general decline in second tier attendances anyway. It may be that Keighley's boss realises the proposed changes to the structure of the league in which only 16 clubs will populate the top two tiers will leave Keighley well behind if he doesn't act soon. Last time Keighley  were third tier, crowds were as bad as 470 for a game against Swinton and look what's happening to them.

 

For me getting this ground is a long shot but best of luck all. Having watched both Mania clubs, Keighley is a stand alone sizeable RL town with RL being the main spectator sport. Bradford IMVHO have little to do with the situation but I think the proposed changes to the league structure do.

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Oh dear!

 

Anyway one Bulls fan once set out nicely how the games powerbase in Bradford is largely centered on south Bradford and Odsal where the professional AND amateur game is largely based. Fans came from all around and afar too, for Bullmania and to watch a side of well paid stars in a business model that eventually failed. For Bullmania read Cougarmania. Both failed business models based on hyped up marketing. You can't have it both ways, If those days are over they are over for both clubs.

 

As for the stadium it is neither funded nor built, but you can't blame any club for having a go for whatever money they can find. Leigh's ground was developed as a general regeneration project so it had to have multi-use to get at the money. As a home for the RL club the attendances have averaged 1,900. Doncasters Keepmoat was built mainly for soccer inc. the famous Ladies team and Doncasters attendances there have been an average of 900.

 

Neither figure shows much of an improvement if any at all never mind a reduction from the days before the clubs managed modern stadium, but there has been a general decline in second tier attendances anyway. It may be that Keighley's boss realises the proposed changes to the structure of the league in which only 16 clubs will populate the top two tiers will leave Keighley well behind if he doesn't act soon. Last time Keighley  were third tier, crowds were as bad as 470 for a game against Swinton and look what's happening to them.

 

For me getting this ground is a long shot but best of luck all. Having watched both Mania clubs, Keighley is a stand alone sizeable RL town with RL being the main spectator sport. Bradford IMVHO have little to do with the situation but I think the proposed changes to the league structure do.

 

You and I have fundamentally different outlooks re the game. You are the eternal pessimist in my opinion whilst I might err in  the opposite direction.

 

I remember the threads saying Salford. Leigh and Doncaster would never see their ground built, long meandering doom laden threads at that but hey, all three grounds are built and open. Going farther back, I remember Huddersfield looking dead and buried and at Fartown. Now the new stadium is long ago erected. I remember Halifax having to sell Thrum Hall and moving to an only slightly better Shay but look at it now. I remember Widnes at the old Naughton Park and Saints in a crumbling Knowlsey Road and even Wigan having to sell central Park only to be bailed out by DW. I remember Rochdale at their dying dump and Hull at the boulevard and Craven Park without a decent pitch and no stand at the end. I remember most of all Mount Pleasant prior to it's upgrade to the cracking little stadium it is now based on a scheme similar to that proposed for Keighley, namely grants and a long time frame for completion, not to forget Dewsbury's new Crown Flatt Some even said Hunslet wold never ever return to South Leeds as there was no ground to return to. Also let's not forget that the new Wakefield ground is well along the road to a start and even York have been assured of a new ground in a share with York City..

 

So, whilst Keighley's ground might never materialise, just like the redevelopment of Odsal, I prefer to give the club the benefit of the doubt and presume they have done their homework re grants, loans and debentures and that they can pull it off. Many others have.

 

As regards attendances in the Championships, it is true they are mostly dire but at Fev ( another redeveloped ground about to become reality ) and Fax there are bright spots. Leigh too look to have finally got their act together. Did attendances increase there last season, I got the impression they did. Doncaster are building steadily and two seasons ago won  the Championship of CC1 and last season got to the playoffs in the Championship proper and are now under the wing of Doncaster Rovers. 900 for them is historically decent. In the alleged golden years of RL I was working  at Thorne and they were my local team and the average was 250 and that was when they were playing against the top Yorkshire sides like Leeds and Wakefield etc.

 

I think Keighley's glory days are over and if you have read my other posts you will see what my projections for improved crowds might be. I do think the Bulls 15,000 stuff is a thing of the past also unless they rise to a position of dominance that they were in at that time. Do you see that happening, I don't. they are having financial issues and cutting back at this very moment.

 

Keighley, however, seem to be solvent ( for once ) and they are slowly improving their team. If the stadium is actually built and a decent team is performing here I can see a decent increase in crowds. Bradford will have to pull in 7,000 to regain their zenith. Keighley only 3000, a much bigger ask and we don't have Bradford City pulling in 14,000 to contend with.

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Ok, is any SL chairman who claims you need 8000-10000 to spend full cap (I.e competing in SL) a troll?

You people claim this of me for quoting this!

I could say you are trolling for..

1. Banging on about bringing back P&R

2.Banging on about bringing back lions

3. Banging on about cougarmania

4. Dreaming that the world hasn’t changed

5. Pretending the bulls aren't a big club

6. Pretending SL wasn't going to buy (and save) the bulls

I could go on...

One poster brought RBS as an example but they were rescued as too important to fail!

I don't have to agree with you, you don't have to agree with me....

It would appear that a few posters can't handle a modern take on things

Grow up and act your ages comes to mind !

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Ok, is any SL chairman who claims you need 8000-10000 to spend full cap (I.e competing in SL) a troll?

You people claim this of me for quoting this!

I could say you are trolling for..

1. Banging on about bringing back P&R

2.Banging on about bringing back lions

3. Banging on about cougarmania

4. Dreaming that the world hasn’t changed

5. Pretending the bulls aren't a big club

6. Pretending SL wasn't going to buy (and save) the bulls

I could go on...

One poster brought RBS as an example but they were rescued as too important to fail!

I don't have to agree with you, you don't have to agree with me....

It would appear that a few posters can't handle a modern take on things

Grow up and act your ages comes to mind !

 

1. Whichever new format is to be Introduced, i.e. 3 x 8 or 1 or 2 up and down, it is and will be a form of p and r or do you have some in side info to the contrary.

 

2. I personally have never advocated bringing back the Lions but it has been put forward as part of a proposed international calendar at the highest level or did you not read that snippet.

 

3. For every reference to Cougarmania, there has been an opposite response from you about Bullmania. the word "kettle. pot and black" come to mind.

 

4 and 5 Bradford WERE a top club on the same level as Wigan, Leeds, St Helens and Warrington. They are now at the level of Wakefield, Hull KR, Castleford and , Widnes. They are no longer an elite club. What part of that scenario don't you understand ?

 

6. Unless you know something new SL did not buy and save the Bulls. They merely facilitated new ownership to do so.

 

RBS was regarded as too big to fail but they did just that , SPECTACULARLY. That the poor British taxpayer had to foot the bill is immaterial to the fact that they failed and how.

 

Calling people childish because they won't kow tow to your views is exactly that childish in extremis. Modernity might be considered in part as updating old and outdated edifices and planning for a brighter future as no doubt the Cougars are doing by building a new and modern stadium.

 

Now go back over the border onto the mythical Shangri La of Bradford and leave us poor benighted outlanders from Keighley to be positive about our new stadium plans.

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1. Whichever new format is to be Introduced, i.e. 3 x 8 or 1 or 2 up and down, it is and will be a form of p and r or do you have some in side info to the contrary.

2. I personally have never advocated bringing back the Lions but it has been put forward as part of a proposed international calendar at the highest level or did you not read that snippet.

3. For every reference to Cougarmania, there has been an opposite response from you about Bullmania. the word "kettle. pot and black" come to mind.

4 and 5 Bradford WERE a top club on the same level as Wigan, Leeds, St Helens and Warrington. They are now at the level of Wakefield, Hull KR, Castleford and , Widnes. They are no longer an elite club. What part of that scenario don't you understand ?

6. Unless you know something new SL did not buy and save the Bulls. They merely facilitated new ownership to do so.

RBS was regarded as too big to fail but they did just that , SPECTACULARLY. That the poor British taxpayer had to foot the bill is immaterial to the fact that they failed and how.

Calling people childish because they won't kow tow to your views is exactly that childish in extremis. Modernity might be considered in part as updating old and outdated edifices and planning for a brighter future as no doubt the Cougars are doing by building a new and modern stadium.

Now go back over the border onto the mythical Shangri La of Bradford and leave us poor benighted outlanders from Keighley to be positive about our new stadium plans.

Some of this I agree with other bits I don't, let's not go round in circles when we will never agree. ...

Just on a last note, Bradford may at present be on a par with the said clubs but only because they aren't getting their TV money!

Oh and I wasn't calling your good self childish I respect you for having strong views and putting up a good debate! I took offence to another posters accusations because I have a different view point!

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Some of this I agree with other bits I don't, let's not go round in circles when we will never agree. ...

Just on a last note, Bradford may at present be on a par with the said clubs but only because they aren't getting their TV money!

Oh and I wasn't calling your good self childish I respect you for having strong views and putting up a good debate! I took offence to another posters accusations because I have a different view point!

They were forced to sell their ground to the RFL when they were getting their full share of the TV money. It's hard to see them as being "bigger" than Cas, Widnes etc right at the minute. 

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Don't feed it. If it wants to start a thread about a franchised SL then it should do so.

 

This thread is about Keighley looking to improve facilities, I really can't see any harm in that. There's been a quiet revolution going on at certain clubs in the Championship.

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You and I have fundamentally different outlooks re the game. You are the eternal pessimist in my opinion whilst I might err in  the opposite direction.

 

I remember the threads saying Salford. Leigh and Doncaster would never see their ground built, long meandering doom laden threads at that but hey, all three grounds are built and open. Going farther back, I remember Huddersfield looking dead and buried and at Fartown. Now the new stadium is long ago erected. I remember Halifax having to sell Thrum Hall and moving to an only slightly better Shay but look at it now. I remember Widnes at the old Naughton Park and Saints in a crumbling Knowlsey Road and even Wigan having to sell central Park only to be bailed out by DW. I remember Rochdale at their dying dump and Hull at the boulevard and Craven Park without a decent pitch and no stand at the end. I remember most of all Mount Pleasant prior to it's upgrade to the cracking little stadium it is now based on a scheme similar to that proposed for Keighley, namely grants and a long time frame for completion, not to forget Dewsbury's new Crown Flatt Some even said Hunslet wold never ever return to South Leeds as there was no ground to return to. Also let's not forget that the new Wakefield ground is well along the road to a start and even York have been assured of a new ground in a share with York City..

 

So, whilst Keighley's ground might never materialise, just like the redevelopment of Odsal, I prefer to give the club the benefit of the doubt and presume they have done their homework re grants, loans and debentures and that they can pull it off. Many others have.

 

I think your idea of us being opposites is totally unhelpful. After all you agree the SKY contract is everything and you now largely agree that it takes investors to build a club, and investors who are not bothered about a return at that. You even agree radical league restructures won't change things. I don't call that opposites.

 

Now you regress and launch into another fanciful debate void of facts reasoning and logic based on your self styled "white knight of optimism" vanquishing the black heart of the infidel RL pessimist.

 

Grounds have and have not been built so if Hemel Hempstead announce a £20,000,000 super stadium then I suppose it could happen, they are still taking odds on Norwich to win the Premier league too.

 

How and why all those grounds got built is the logic and reasoning as far as Keighley are concerned. There are things that IMHO they must include in the project to attract the grants and other funds, because they certainly lack two main factors, 1. A council that is another City's council who would find it hard to give one club the money and not others as is the problem around Wakefield, and 2. No soccer club to ride on the back of.

 

Let's both be realists from now on and maybe we can agree more. As for the Hunslet got their new ground point you left out the bit where the council was tied to an agreement to build one in exchange for Hunslet vacating Elland Road. The council then built it as a 2,000 capacity and refused to extend the capacity for Super League. Our new ground was a ticket to being a supporters club team. What revolution is your new ground a ticket to?

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They were forced to sell their ground to the RFL when they were getting their full share of the TV money. It's hard to see them as being "bigger" than Cas, Widnes etc right at the minute. 

 

Bradford overspent but finished in the top 8, they got a points deduction that saw them outside the top 8, 

 

I agree that they are on level with cas at the moment, but when they start getting their money back for TV revenue they 'should' kick on!

I dont really understand what the benefit or justification of punishing Bradford in this way is? They had a points deduction the same as any other team in breach of operating rules!

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