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ShotgunGold

Muslims refuse to sell alcohol and pork at M&S. Yay or Nay?

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I have been in a pub tonight run by an Iranian guy. He's a Muslim. He laughed at this story. More importantly he gave me some cider on the house.

Its a plot to get us all drunk and then impose Sharia law when we are telling people they're our mates and we love 'em.

I'm with Page on this issue.

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Just a minor point, you wont be refused service. You wont be sent to another till.

It will be just the same as when the cashier is under 18 and you buy booze. A supervisor will come over and do it, and then the cashier carries on.

On top of that the number of cases that will happen?

Mountains, molehills and agendas....

The 17 year olds not being able to sell booze annoys me too. I'm a bundle of anger.

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It seems that M@S has apologised, stating that the company's procedure on checkout staff hadn't been adhered to. It's still opened a can of worms considering the backlash. 

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The 17 year olds not being able to sell booze annoys me too. I'm a bundle of anger.

You won't be concerned until they restrict the sale of manbags.

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If a shop sells meat/alcohol then for me ALL the people who work on the tills should be able/want to sell it to a customer. If they have a problem then they should not work on a till but work shelf filling etc. Why should somebody line up and wait 5-10 minutes to be served to then find out the Assistant cant/wont sell them something the shop is selling? Its up to the Shop manager to use his staff properly and if they cant/Wont serve something then tell them they either will need to look for another job or offer them something else to do.

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Would a load of rubbish as Muslims never have a problem serving alcohol in a restaurant and corner shop.

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Like the Christian proprietors of a B&B refusing to allow gay couple to share a room say?

I'm not sure why this is aimed at me. I neither own a B and B, nor am I Christian, nor do I have "issues" with gay couples. 

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My fundamental objection to this is that it is yet another little element that emphasises the separateness of Muslims rather than their integration into the wider community. I don't think it's helpful.

Indeed.

 

We should give no such victories to the nastier minded kind of Muslim. We should not create the right to a "sharia zone" around Muslims where nothing can happen that might offend them.

 

Recently Choudary was shouting about Muslims selling alcohol in Tower Hamlets or they would face lashes. There is a direct link between giving in to extremism in small issues and them being emboldened and taking further liberties.

 

A group of non-Muslims were assaulted by a "sharia patrol" in Tower Hamlets when they refused to stop holding hands near a Mosque.

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Like the Christian proprietors of a B&B refusing to allow gay couple to share a room say?

 

And I think you'll find most people on the side of the right to get smashed on M&S G&T and be served by anyone in the shop were also on the same side as the gayists who wanted to have a nice night's kip over the heads of some bigoted sky pixie worshippers.

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A group of non-Muslims were assaulted by a "sharia patrol" in Tower Hamlets when they refused to stop holding hands near a Mosque.

By a former Christian, ginger Muslim convert.  I wonder what he'd do if he went on holiday to Riyadh, that bastion of Islamic tolerance, where it's very common for male friends to walk along hand-in-hand.  Another idiot thinking that his view of what Islamic conventions are is the correct one.

 

When I was there with the army before and after the first gulf war, we were briefed that the Saudis get very touchy about non-Saudis judging them for two males holding hands.

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I work for said retailer and there's not been any briefing or discussion on said "story". We have numerous different areas where people can work and not come into any contact with pork or alcohol products. To me it seems a quiet news day has been brightened by this "outrageous" rule.

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I work for said retailer and there's not been any briefing or discussion on said "story". We have numerous different areas where people can work and not come into any contact with pork or alcohol products. To me it seems a quiet news day has been brightened by this "outrageous" rule.

That might be the case but the one London store didn't follow this policy and M and S appeared to confirm that this was all well and good.

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By a former Christian, ginger Muslim convert.  I wonder what he'd do if he went on holiday to Riyadh, that bastion of Islamic tolerance, where it's very common for male friends to walk along hand-in-hand.  Another idiot thinking that his view of what Islamic conventions are is the correct one.

 

When I was there with the army before and after the first gulf war, we were briefed that the Saudis get very touchy about non-Saudis judging them for two males holding hands.

Tbf Saudis get drunk in the desert and take drugs but it doesn't mean it's okay by Islam.

 

Also in their view, men holding hands is "normal" but a man and a woman holding hands is not.

 

So although he may be a ######, he may not be wrong about Islamic conventions.

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By a former Christian, ginger Muslim convert.  I wonder what he'd do if he went on holiday to Riyadh, that bastion of Islamic tolerance, where it's very common for male friends to walk along hand-in-hand.  Another idiot thinking that his view of what Islamic conventions are is the correct one.

 

When I was there with the army before and after the first gulf war, we were briefed that the Saudis get very touchy about non-Saudis judging them for two males holding hands.

Rick Stein said that there are place's in England which are more Islamic then some of the places he visited in Bangladesh.

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That might be the case but the one London store didn't follow this policy and M and S appeared to confirm that this was all well and good.

I not here to defend or stick up for M&S but just saying how it is at my store and every other one I've worked in. Would seem someone made an error of judgement by putting the customer assistant on a food till.

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Tbf Saudis get drunk in the desert and take drugs but it doesn't mean it's okay by Islam.

 

Also in their view, men holding hands is "normal" but a man and a woman holding hands is not.

 

So although he may be a ######, he may not be wrong about Islamic conventions.

Nah, when I was there there were plenty of examples of men and women walking together in public places holding hands, hugging and so on.  No-one batted an eyelid about that.  They had plenty of other seriously idiotic and very discriminatory things happening in plain view but that sort of conduct wasn't one of them.

 

For example, there was a Pizza Hut right across from our compound in Riyadh, it had a hatch by the main door with a sign "no females allowed in this restaurant" and they had to be served at the hatch.  When on guard there I'd see more than a few Saudi couples turn up, walk to the place hand-in-hand then the man would enter while the woman waited outside like a good little obedient pet then walk away hand-in-hand again once he came out with their pizza.

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Meh none story

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And I'm sure we would all like that state of affairs to continue.

 

The fact that you've never experienced this sort of thing until now, though, is precisely why this is a story, because Marks & Spencer seem to be introducing a rule (if we can believe the news) whereby someone could be on a till but refuse to serve you.

 

So for the first time in your life there is a possibility, if you shop at M & S in their food department, that you may indeed be told to search for another checkout operator to serve you because the operator at the nearest checkout doesn't want to put your pork sandwich into your carrier bag.

 

It sounds too ridiculous to be true, and I hope it is.

 

It's worth pointing out that there is nothing in the Muslim religion that bans the handling of beer bottles or certain kinds of food, and I would be surprised if most Muslims took any notice of this at all. This sort of decision that M&S have apparently made is almost certainly a bigger burden for their Muslim employees than for anyone else, mainly because there may be some Muslim zealots who demand of their colleagues that they exercise this right, now that they have been given it.

 

My fundamental objection to this is that it is yet another little element that emphasises the separateness of Muslims rather than their integration into the wider community. I don't think it's helpful.

 

I think integration would be helped enormously if isolated incidents like this one appears to have been weren't blown up into such massive scare stories by the media.

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I think integration would be helped enormously if isolated incidents like this one appears to have been weren't blown up into such massive scare stories by the media.

Yep. 

 

- Jewish courts work for over 100 years without issue, Muslims get the same right as a court of arbitration and you'd think we were all going to be subjected to Sharia law.

- Christians refuse to work on Sundays due to religious issues without issue, Muslims want a wee bit of extra tolerance during Ramadan and you'd think we were all being asked to give up eating in the workplace or having cups of tea during the day.

- Vegetarians get health and safety laws passed to ensure that food marked as vegetarian is actually meat contaminant free with no issue, Muslims want the same protection from eating pork or alcohol contaminated food and you'd think we were being asked to give up bacon forever.

 

Plenty more examples out there...

 

The nutjobs on either side of the argument are running the entire argument with those of in the middle just wanting everyone to show some tolerance get ignored by the mainstream media.  The original decision by M&S falls into the nutjob category.

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Don't you think that the fact that hardly anyone knew about these Jewish 'courts' is an indication of how little it has impacted on everyday life in Britain? You simply cannot say the same about the people wanting sharia law.

I wonder if the next time we have (for instance) gays being refused accommodation or whatever, people will be so quick to dismiss it as a non story.

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Don't you think that the fact that hardly anyone knew about these Jewish 'courts' is an indication of how little it has impacted on everyday life in Britain? You simply cannot say the same about the people wanting sharia law.

I wonder if the next time we have (for instance) gays being refused accommodation or whatever, people will be so quick to dismiss it as a non story.

But... the "courts" they have are bounded by strict laws and they're an arbitration tribunal only, much like ACAS arbitration hearings.  I could set up a court in my living room with the same powers based on Pastafarianism today if I really wanted to.  They cannot rule on anything reserved by other courts, e.g. criminal, marital, insolvency or many civil court matters.  You cannot be compelled to attend one, you can ignore them  entirely if you like as they can only proceed with your confirmed written acceptance of its jurisdiction.  You can accept their jurisdiction, sit through the entire hearing and walk out right before they give a decision and you'll not be bound by that decision.  A civil court of the lowest level of district judge can override any of their rulings on many remarkably trivial procedural issues.  In short, they have fewer powers than Judge Judy does as a TV judge.  The only reason people think the Muslim versions have an "impact" is because the media have made it so.

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I think integration would be helped enormously if isolated incidents like this one appears to have been weren't blown up into such massive scare stories by the media.

Perhaps reporting on isolated incidents like this ensures that such incidents remain isolated.

 

I hope all instances of imposing your beliefs on someone else in this manner are reported as such, regardless of what religion - as we quite rightly saw with the Christian B&B owners.

 

There weren't many cries of 'meh' or 'non-story' when that issue was being widely reported.

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A s far as I am aware, most branches of Judasim do not actively proselytize to non-Jews whereas in Islam,  inviting people to become Muslims  is regarded as a good thing to do. 

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