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ckn

Food banks

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So what if he does, he has no dependents.

 

 

How do you know? 

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Mmmm charity eh? The Sally Army who, according to George Orwell "can't do anything without making it stink of religion" and other handouts. Judgmental? You're being precisely that without even realising it.

 

Nice to see responsible people like you feeling so smug and self satisfied, well done you!!!

Pot and kettle there mate.  You've just made a sweeping judgment about religious people without even realising it.  Or maybe you did realise it and decided to go for it anyway. 

 

Without religious people - specifically Christian people in the case of the UK - there would have been hardly any caring at all in this country at one time.  I reckon you should be feeling gratitude towards religious people myself, should your concern for the needy of the country be genuine of course which I'm sure it is.

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How do you know?

Because he is a tramp, they are invariably solo. As such whatever they do or don't do impacts primarily on them. Whereas someone spending the child benefit on cigs affects others.

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I do not smoke nor buy coffee from coffee shops, so please skip the indignation (I have differnet vices).  I am not even justifying the money spent on cigarettes, I am just saying it will happen, short of bringing in a specific licence to smoke and only under supervision.

 

You are free to condemn people all you like.  That is not being debated, it is just not this particular thread.  

 

Perhaps we can start a new thread; 'People we condemn'.  

If you want to start such a thread then go for it.  Why so defensive?

 

I was simply stating an opinion that adults should be held accountable for being adult, which involves taking responsibility for dependents.  I don't see how on earth that can be taken as judgmental.  In my understanding, taking responsibility and being held accountable are facets of adulthood.  Certainly of maturity anyway.

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Pot and kettle there mate.  You've just made a sweeping judgment about religious people without even realising it.  Or maybe you did realise it and decided to go for it anyway. 

 

Without religious people - specifically Christian people in the case of the UK - there would have been hardly any caring at all in this country at one time.  I reckon you should be feeling gratitude towards religious people myself, should your concern for the needy of the country be genuine of course which I'm sure it is.

 

 

Cobblers, I go for the "jesus died for his own sins not mine" school of thinking. I had religion drilled into me by nuns and priests as a kid and still think they are the lowest form of life.

 

Religion says "be good, don't rock the boat in this life and you'll be rewarded in the next" I have absolutely no gratitude towards christianity at all and furthermore don't feel a bit guilty about it.

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Cobblers, I go for the "jesus died for his own sins not mine" school of thinking. I had religion drilled into me by nuns and priests as a kid and still think they are the lowest form of life.

Religion says "be good, don't rock the boat in this life and you'll be rewarded in the next" I have absolutely no gratitude towards christianity at all and furthermore don't feel a bit guilty about it.

I aren't religious. But most soup kitchens or refuge for the poor are done by religious people. Whereas most non religious people like me do very little to help.

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Cobblers, I go for the "jesus died for his own sins not mine" school of thinking. I had religion drilled into me by nuns and priests as a kid and still think they are the lowest form of life.

 

Then you need to tackle your own judgementalism before accusing others of suffering from it otherwise you risk being called a hypocrite.

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Then you need to tackle your own judgementalism before accusing others of suffering from it otherwise you risk being called a hypocrite.

 

:haha:  :haha:  :haha:  :haha:  :haha:

 

Good attempt at shifting the thread there, anyway;

Q: should poor people who smoke be able to get food from food banks?

A: Yes

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:haha::haha::haha::haha::haha:

Good attempt at shifting the thread there, anyway;

Q: should poor people who smoke be able to get food from food banks?

A: Yes

Why?

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Q: should poor people who smoke be able to get food from food banks?

A: Yes

Q:  Has anyone said otherwise?

A:  No.

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Q:  Has anyone said otherwise?

A:  No.

 

 

Errr yeah!!!

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http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/sep/26/unemployed-single-britain-smokers-uk-cigarette-statistics

39% of the unemployed are smokers. The raw data at the bottom of the page is interesting. How many, what age, socio economic class etc. it would seem some people are choosing the risk of cancer over food, unless all those who use foodbanks are non smokers.

39% averaging 10 per day. Thats about a third of their dole per week on cigs. Perhaps foodbanks should be banned, it may encourage people to quit.

 

 

Regardless of all that Trojan, if you can't afford enough food for your family, why would you smoke?

 

 

This is the uncomfortable truth for many leftwingers and they prefer not to attempt an answer.  Add drink to that as well and that's a lot of money going away from family needs. 

 

 

So basically, screw you kids, my habit comes first? If you only have so much money, you aren't supposed to spend a chunk of it on a personal habit at the expense of food or clothes. And excusing people who do this by defending their habit makes it even easier for them to continue.

  

 

Close enough for me to saying don't use food banks if you smoke

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Close enough for me to saying don't use food banks if you smoke

Maybe but that doesn't actually make the statements you quoted remotely close to an opinion that people who smoke shouldn't use foodbanks!  The statements you quoted were actually, in point of fact, questioning how a parent can justify smoking over feeding their children, which has nothing whatsoever to do with foodbanks.

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Maybe but that doesn't actually make the statements you quoted remotely close to an opinion that people who smoke shouldn't use foodbanks! The statements you quoted were actually, in point of fact, questioning how a parent can justify smoking over feeding their children, which has nothing whatsoever to do with foodbanks.

Correct.

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Close enough for me to saying don't use food banks if you smoke

 

 

Maybe

 near enough thank you

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Hang on Phil, weren't you recently saying about a friend who rents houses out and how he was dismayed by the soft treatment of his drug addict tenants by social services? Why aren't they entitled to spend their money on drugs instead of rent?

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Hang on Phil, weren't you recently saying about a friend who rents houses out and how he was dismayed by the soft treatment of his drug addict tenants by social services? Why aren't they entitled to spend their money on drugs instead of rent?

 

 

 Because, whether you agree with it or not, most drug taking is illegal and in the case of highly addictive drugs like Heroin and crack is a major contributor to crime. Last I looked smoking, although highly addictive and pretty unpleasant is not illegal and as far as I'm aware is not a major contributor to street crime.

 

There has just been a strong vein of self-righteousness running through this thread and I still think its a ###### major scandal that in 2014 some people are having to rely on charity run food banks to get a meal, whether they smoke or not is by the by to me. And I certainly don't need lectures on christian morality to justify the status quo.

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  I still think its a ###### major scandal that in 2014 some people are having to rely on charity run food banks to get a meal, whether they smoke or not is by the by to me. And I certainly don't need lectures on christian morality to justify the status quo.

 

I have some sympathy with that sentiment but after years of working-class life-experience, we both know that, for every genuine case flagged up by the media and by interested parties, there are a good dozen deadbeats who have their hands permanently held out for sponging.

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I have some sympathy with that sentiment but after years of working-class life-experience, we both know that, for every genuine case flagged up by the media and by interested parties, there are a good dozen deadbeats who have their hands permanently held out for sponging.

 

 

I don't know any such thing reverse those figures and you'd be nearer

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Cobblers, I go for the "jesus died for his own sins not mine" school of thinking. I had religion drilled into me by nuns and priests as a kid and still think they are the lowest form of life.

 

Religion says "be good, don't rock the boat in this life and you'll be rewarded in the next" I have absolutely no gratitude towards christianity at all and furthermore don't feel a bit guilty about it.

 

Obviously Phil you have had your own nasty experience in life over religion, but don't tar every religious person the same. Having run away from a violent, alcoholic father and who went on to murder a baby from a second marriage, my two aunties as well as two grandparents took six of us in for over 13 years. Both aunties were religious but had hearts of gold towards everyone. I would go as far to say that my auntie Ivy was one in a million, never ever complaining while giving her all to family, friends and Girl Guides. Even a car accident that crushed both legs didn't stop her helping others, even to hobbling 400 yards to the local shops to shop for her elderly neighbours. An angel in every sense and never ever dictated to us about her religious beliefs. A truly amazing generous person and loved by all. Today, I still tend to their graves in sincere gratitude. What might have been otherwise as our family could have been split up? 

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Because, whether you agree with it or not, most drug taking is illegal and in the case of highly addictive drugs like Heroin and crack is a major contributor to crime. Last I looked smoking, although highly addictive and pretty unpleasant is not illegal and as far as I'm aware is not a major contributor to street crime.

There has just been a strong vein of self-righteousness running through this thread and I still think its a ###### major scandal that in 2014 some people are having to rely on charity run food banks to get a meal, whether they smoke or not is by the by to me. And I certainly don't need lectures on christian morality to justify the status quo.

I never mentioned street crime nor do I look at it from a religious point of view. I just happen to think that if you spend money allocated to food or clothing for your children on your own personal gratification then you are a selfish waster.

And I don't even mean 'we've got the shopping in and have a few quid left. .I will buy some fags' I mean purposely thinking 'my cigs/booze come first then let's see what is left'

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What's worse, the Sally army giving a homeless tramp warm food and a bed albeit with a religious slant or George Orwell doing absolutely FA except write terrible books and pretending to be working class for a bit in order to research a pompous book? I back the Sally Army here personally.

I have a slight issue with people who slagged of Mother Theresa for her religious acts from a self-righteous position.  Most people I have met volunteering at such places are religious (even those who are not overt about it).

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I think I might be the only person on this thread who has managed to disagree with everyone.  Do I win a prize?

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There has just been a strong vein of self-righteousness running through this thread and I still think its a ###### major scandal that in 2014 some people are having to rely on charity run food banks to get a meal, whether they smoke or not is by the by to me. And I certainly don't need lectures on christian morality to justify the status quo.

I disagree that there has been a 'strong vein of self-righteousness' running through this thread.  All that has happened is that a few posters, including myself, have questioned - and rightly IMO - the priorities of parents towards their children when money is tight.  I personally call that responsibility.  Parents do have responsibility for and over their children.  Parenting is supposed to be sacrificial.  That means putting the children's needs before your own.  And the needs for food, water, clothing and shelter are primary needs and should never be compromised.  That isn't to say that parents should not relax or have treats but surely such things should be with what is left over rather than as a priority? 

 

Likewise there were no lectures on Christian morality; just the valid point that people of faith have been supporting those in need in this country for centuries, way before the state got involved.  That doesn't discount the reality of abuse within faith communities.  There is abuse wherever you put human beings together.  There have been numerous stories of abuse within state sector provision in recent years.  Where there is abuse, or neglect, or lack of responsibility towards dependents (whether young, old, disabled or able bodied), there should be accountability.  That is equally the case for faith organisations as it is for the state - and for parents/carers.

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