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Johnoco

12 Years A Slave Film Director

51 posts in this topic

At some point we have to accept it was wrong, put it behind us, and move on together. Bringing it up again, and again, and again, doesn't really serve any purpose.

I don't think the Americans are yet at the point where it is behind them.  While slavery has been abolished in the USA for some time, colour segregation was abolished only relatively recently and its effects are still very much in evidence in American society.  Putting slavery and its consequences behind them may take another couple of generations for Americans, white and black.

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Yes, that is all true but at the same time slavery ended a long, long time ago. At some point, it is time to give it up. That's not to say that slavery was okay but people need to live in 2014.

Sadly, slavery is still alive and kicking, and in Britain, in 2014!

 

However, while enslaving black people was officially abolished in 1865 in the USA, segregation on the basis of 'separate but equal' was deemed constitutional towards the end of the 19th century and was only made illegal in 1954.  It was only in the 1960s, usually as a result of demonstration and violence, that segregation began to be overcome in practice as well as principle.  There are a lot of people alive today who were alive then. 

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Sadly, slavery is still alive and kicking, and in Britain, in 2014!

 

However, while enslaving black people was officially abolished in 1865 in the USA, segregation on the basis of 'separate but equal' was deemed constitutional towards the end of the 19th century and was only made illegal in 1954.  It was only in the 1960s, usually as a result of demonstration and violence, that segregation began to be overcome in practice as well as principle.  There are a lot of people alive today who were alive then. 

Yeah, but Steve McQueen isn't one of them. He grew up in the UK and his parents were from the unsegregated West Indies.

 

Slavery might still exist but it isn't a black vs white thing. Slavery never was exclusively black vs white.

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Yes, that is all true but at the same time slavery ended a long, long time ago. At some point, it is time to give it up. That's not to say that slavery was okay but people need to live in 2014.

 

In 2014 there are hundreds, if not thousands, of slaves in the UK including Trafficed East European prostitutes and coerced wives.

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In 2014 there are hundreds, if not thousands, of slaves in the UK including Trafficed East European prostitutes and coerced wives.

I read around modern slavery once and the number brought in for prostitution is relatively small.  If you are importing slave labour, it is not wise to have them sharing intimate moments with members of the public.  We would never have heard about slave labour cockle pickers, were it not for the tide turning in.  Most slave labour will be very well hidden from view rather than sleeping with members of the public.

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In 2014 there are hundreds, if not thousands, of slaves in the UK including Trafficed East European prostitutes and coerced wives.

 

Apparently, and I say apparently because I can't find the report it came from, if you wanted to stop trafficking in the UK you'd close the nail bars.

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Apparently, and I say apparently because I can't find the report it came from, if you wanted to stop trafficking in the UK you'd close the nail bars.

There are a few reports:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/20/nail-bars-slavery-trafficking-vietnam Guardian Warning

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2396774/Is-manicurist-sex-slave-Nail-salons-human-trafficking.html Daily Mail warning

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/phillip-martin/nail-salons-and-human-tra_b_669076.html

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/special_reports&id=8990740

 

No reputable sources, but plenty of articles.

 

This issue gets mixed up with a perverse feminism that suggests only men exploit women and all prostitutes are either forced at gun-point or are not really women and should be shot (therefore they must all be trafficked).

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I read around modern slavery once and the number brought in for prostitution is relatively small.  If you are importing slave labour, it is not wise to have them sharing intimate moments with members of the public.  We would never have heard about slave labour cockle pickers, were it not for the tide turning in.  Most slave labour will be very well hidden from view rather than sleeping with members of the public.

I think you are out of touch.  And you forget too that those with learning difficulties who were born and brought up in the UK have also been subject to slavery.  In fact, one such case has just been reported on.  Trafficking generally has been given its own law only recently because of its noticeable rise.

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I think you are out of touch.  And you forget too that those with learning difficulties who were born and brought up in the UK have also been subject to slavery.  In fact, one such case has just been reported on.  Trafficking generally has been given its own law only recently because of its noticeable rise.

If you will excuse me, I was not commenting on the numbers, more that it is often seen as synonymous with prostitution, or at least that most traficking is of prostitutes and that most prostitutes are trafiicked.  There is an reaasonably well referenced article on it here that only dates from last year;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/sex/9616987/I-worked-in-the-sex-trade-does-that-make-me-trafficked.html

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It does in two ways: he is black and his ancestors may also have been taken into slavery.  The British worked slaves on the plantations in the West Indies and some West Indians were taken to the USA albeit not in the same numbers as Africans (and of course until we changed our minds we were heavily involved in that business too).

 

I am looking forward to seeing this film simply because of the British connection.  I am interested to find out whether there is a different slant on it when compared to other films dealing with the same issue, aside from the main character being initially a free man in the USA (as opposed to in Africa).

The Lascelles family of Harewood (cousins of the queen) made their money from slavery.

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The Lascelles family of Harewood (cousins of the queen) made their money from slavery.

As did many others but it isn't the point of the thread. I don't know about you but they never passed any of it on to me.

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As did many others but it isn't the point of the thread. I don't know about you but they never passed any of it on to me.

Really? None of the money they made has ever been spent?

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Really? None of the money they made has ever been spent?

I'm sure it has but not on me.

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I'm sure it has but not on me.

So none of the businesses they invested in have ever impinged on your life, ever? Economies don't work lke that. Slavery underpinned the UK economy, the same one that exists today. The slavery money wasn't somehow extracted from the economy and destroyed. It's still there, spent, respent, invested, reinvested....

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So none of the businesses they invested in have ever impinged on your life, ever? Economies don't work lke that. Slavery underpinned the UK economy, the same one that exists today. The slavery money wasn't somehow extracted from the economy and destroyed. It's still there, spent, respent, invested, reinvested....

And you think I should feel guilty for this? Besides are you trying to argue that All the money which this country benefitted from involved slavery? No income tax then?

The people most likely to suffer in these times were people like me, either in a mill or up a chimney perhaps. I have absolutely no reason to feel guilt. I won't buy such garbage.

What made this country a superpower was men like Watt and Arkwright and their machines - not slavery. Well it was slavery, but mainly for the white working class.

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So none of the businesses they invested in have ever impinged on your life, ever? Economies don't work lke that. Slavery underpinned the UK economy, the same one that exists today. The slavery money wasn't somehow extracted from the economy and destroyed. It's still there, spent, respent, invested, reinvested....

That train of thought if you followed it through would mean that descendants of slaves also benifited from that same money.

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And you think I should feel guilty for this? Besides are you trying to argue that All the money which this country benefitted from involved slavery? No income tax then?

The people most likely to suffer in these times were people like me, either in a mill or up a chimney perhaps. I have absolutely no reason to feel guilt. I won't buy such garbage.

What made this country a superpower was men like Watt and Arkwright and their machines - not slavery. Well it was slavery, but mainly for the white working class.

I didn't say you should feel guilty.

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That train of thought if you followed it through would mean that descendants of slaves also benifited from that same money.

Yes, it does.

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'In Bradford, one charity, Hope For Justice, has rescued ten people a week. Victims of people trafficking have been used as cheap labour in car washes, in food processing and furniture-making factories, as domestic servants, made to operate as gardeners at cannabis farms, while women have been forced into sexual exploitation.'

 

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/10931327.Commissioner_to_take_on_trafficking/

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It's interesting reading this thread back after just seeing the film for myself.

 

Watching it, I didn't feel guilty as a white person for what was being depicted, I felt appalled as a human being at what some human beings are capabale of inflicting on other human beings when circumstances allow it.

 

It is a shocking story. The film is an uncomfortable watch, but well worth seeing.

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What does 'not making films for white people' mean? Sorry it's all BS

 

he means he's making them for money.

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It's interesting reading this thread back after just seeing the film for myself.

 

Watching it, I didn't feel guilty as a white person for what was being depicted, I felt appalled as a human being at what some human beings are capabale of inflicting on other human beings when circumstances allow it.

 

It is a shocking story. The film is an uncomfortable watch, but well worth seeing.

I'm going to see it on Monday night.  I had the chance to go tonight but after reading some comments on another forum from people who had watched it, I decided that I wanted to have a lighthearted Saturday night out and so I went to watch American Hustle instead (which was very enjoyable). 

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It's interesting reading this thread back after just seeing the film for myself.

 

Watching it, I didn't feel guilty as a white person for what was being depicted, I felt appalled as a human being at what some human beings are capabale of inflicting on other human beings when circumstances allow it.

 

It is a shocking story. The film is an uncomfortable watch, but well worth seeing.

 

I agree John - and even today the torture and killings going on leaves me wondering why such brutality. 

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I agree John - and even today the torture and killings going on leaves me wondering why such brutality. 

That's true. But are all the baddies white... Like some people try to portray? Of course not, it about MANS inhumanity to MAN. Some people are however on a good earner trying to portray whitey as the originator of it all. 

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Regardless of all the valid debates on this thread, it's a terrific film with some great performances, not least of which is Michael Fassbender as the psychotic slave owner.

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