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John Drake

Who'd be in Nick Clegg's shoes...

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It's not often these days I feel any twang of sympathy for Nick Clegg, but he does seem to be caught between a rock and a hard place with regard to Milord Rennard, who seems a rum old cove and not willing to leave the political stage, gracefully or otherwise.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25820928

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You can dismiss the loony left and the swivel eyed loonies on the right, but an alleged predatory dirty old man is a different problem altogether to deal with, especially when they haven't nailed him.

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You can dismiss the loony left and the swivel eyed loonies on the right, but an alleged predatory dirty old man is a different problem altogether to deal with, especially when they haven't nailed him.

 

Why were such matters left to an internal party investigation, rather than the police, that's the bit I don't understand. An attempt to sweep it quietly under the carpet, perhaps, but the outcome hasn't settled anything, just made it worse for all involved.

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Why were such matters left to an internal party investigation, rather than the police, that's the bit I don't understand. An attempt to sweep it quietly under the carpet, perhaps, but the outcome hasn't settled anything, just made it worse for all involved.

 

There does seem to be an element of the investigators coming to a conclusion they weren't briefed to come to thus leaving the Party with some difficult decisions.

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#It's my party, and I'll grope if I want to.

Fondle if I want to, leer if I want to.

You would sue too if it happened to you#

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I wouldn't want to be in Nick Clegg's shoes. They smell worse than the rest of him.

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It's not often these days I feel any twang of sympathy for Nick Clegg, but he does seem to be caught between a rock and a hard place with regard to Milord Rennard, who seems a rum old cove and not willing to leave the political stage, gracefully or otherwise.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25820928

 

who seems a rum old cove

 

how diplomatic!

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Why were such matters left to an internal party investigation, rather than the police, that's the bit I don't understand. An attempt to sweep it quietly under the carpet, perhaps, but the outcome hasn't settled anything, just made it worse for all involved.

The police investigated but found there was no case to answer.

 

And the internal LibDem investigation found that the allegations were "broadly credible".

 

What does the word "broadly" mean in that context.

 

Surely the allegations were either credible or they weren't.

 

I heard an interview on Jeremy Vine's Radio 2 show yesterday with one of the female complainants.

 

She was interviewed some years ago by Rennard when she was a 30-year-old candidate. What her allegation amounts to was that he was too familiar with her.

 

You might have thought that such a problem would be easily dealt with there and then. She could surely have told him to back off, or something even stronger.

 

We are in danger of arriving at a position whereby any attempt by a male to chat up a female is capable of being interpreted as sexual harassment.

 

Respect for women is very important, but let's not involve lawyers in every aspect of human relationships.

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The police investigated but found there was no case to answer.

 

And the internal LibDem investigation found that the allegations were "broadly credible".

 

What does the word "broadly" mean in that context.

 

Surely the allegations were either credible or they weren't.

 

I heard an interview on Jeremy Vine's Radio 2 show yesterday with one of the female complainants.

 

She was interviewed some years ago by Rennard when she was a 30-year-old candidate. What her allegation amounts to was that he was too familiar with her.

 

You might have thought that such a problem would be easily dealt with there and then. She could surely have told him to back off, or something even stronger.

 

We are in danger of arriving at a position whereby any attempt by a male to chat up a female is capable of being interpreted as sexual harassment.

 

Respect for women is very important, but let's not involve lawyers in every aspect of human relationships.

 

 

We are in danger of arriving at a position whereby any attempt by a male to chat up a female is capable of being interpreted as sexual harassment.

 

it seems , though, that there has to be a a gap of between several and many years between the alleged event and the complaint.

 

When it comes to this sort of thing in tje political domain, maybe we have been conditioned by politicians into not actually believing anything anyone says.

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One of the alleged victims, Bridget Harris, said: "When I worked in the whips' office I had 10 male MPs who behaved completely inappropriately to me. It's far from unusual for researchers to have their bottoms pinched and to be kissed on the lips."

 

See http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jan/18/nick-clegg-aide-quits-lib-dems-lord-rennard

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One of the alleged victims, Bridget Harris, said: "When I worked in the whips' office I had 10 male MPs who behaved completely inappropriately to me. It's far from unusual for researchers to have their bottoms pinched and to be kissed on the lips."

 

See http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jan/18/nick-clegg-aide-quits-lib-dems-lord-rennard

In that article she says the following.

 

"Parliament is a place of blind ignorance, stuffed with racists and sexists and they are all idiots and they are accepted. And that's why I walked away. I was actually wasting my time."

 

If those are her views, I'm not sure her judgement should be trusted.

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We are in danger of arriving at a position whereby any attempt by a male to chat up a female is capable of being interpreted as sexual harassment.

 

it seems , though, that there has to be a a gap of between several and many years between the alleged event and the complaint.

 

When it comes to this sort of thing in tje political domain, maybe we have been conditioned by politicians into not actually believing anything anyone says.

 

The woman that Martyn is on about lodged a formal complaint with The Lib Dem management at the time of the incident. She hasn't just raked this up from the back of her memory.

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The woman that Martyn is on about lodged a formal complaint with The Lib Dem management at the time of the incident. She hasn't just raked this up from the back of her memory.

Did they investigate at the time?

 

Presumably they would have had to do.

 

So what action did they take?

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We live in different times now, post Savil, post Hall, post  Catholic scandal, and it is to be hoped that the sort of behaviour alleged no longer takes place, not because people are more likely to speak out, but because it is actually wrong.  I do know it happens as a friend of mine personally experienced it from a" Pillar of (local) Society" many years ago. 

 

 

Then again,she did say "I had 10 male MPs who behaved completely inappropriately to me." but did she do anything at the time? She doesn't seem to be one who would just accept it.

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We are in danger of arriving at a position whereby any attempt by a male to chat up a female is capable of being interpreted as sexual harassment.

 

 

She was being interviewed for a job?  Why the F should he chat her up?

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She was being interviewed for a job?  Why the F should he chat her up?

Absolutely no reason at all.

 

I was making that comment more generally.

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Absolutely no reason at all.

I was making that comment more generally.

But this affair is not "general". He's not accused of "chatting up" a woman in a pub. He's accused of using his position of power to sexually harras women in the workplace.

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but has been cleared  via due process?  I guess who you believe is dictated by who you want to believe and why.

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But this affair is not "general". He's not accused of "chatting up" a woman in a pub. He's accused of using his position of power to sexually harras women in the workplace.

That's right, and Padge points out that she complained at the time.

 

So what happened to that complaint?

 

Was sexual harassment shown to have occurred?

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The whole thing has been handled badly. Lord R has been found guilty and abused in public by the leaders of the party. The offence has been investigated and found to have insufficient evidence. None of this should have been aired in public.

 

He probably is one of those creepy men who thinks it's OK to make inappropriate comments to young women.

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That's right, and Padge points out that she complained at the time.

 

So what happened to that complaint?

 

Was sexual harassment shown to have occurred?

I think the point she may be making is that nothing happened to the complaint, which has historically been the problem.  I'm old enough to have been on the receiving end of unwanted male attention at work without any way of changing things as back in the day it was a question of 'put up or shut up' for women in the workplace no matter how women may feel.  Groping and such like in the office was not considered an offence of any kind, much less a criminal one, and women did not feel they had anyone listening to them. 

 

Things have changed and some blokes don't like it.  Tough noogies is all I can say to them.  They have to keep their hands, eyes, and all other parts to themselves while at work and that is exactly how it should be.

 

However, nor do I want to see men vilified or victimised simply because complaints have been lodged or because men happen to be, er, men.

 

Rennard has consistently denied the charges, an internal investigation has come to the conclusion that there was insufficient evidence, and that should have been it. Unfortunate for the women if indeed he had abused them but that's how it is. However, Clegg went off on one and broke his own party's rules by banishing Rennard to the edges of the universe regardless of the enquiry's findings and made a big mess of an already messy situation.

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I blame the SDP. The traditional Liberal Party generally confined itself to homosexual scandals.

;)

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I think the point she may be making is that nothing happened to the complaint, which has historically been the problem.  

But surely if she made a formal complaint shortly after the event, something must have happened.

 

Was the complaint dismissed?

 

Did someone decide it was frivolous? Perhaps even not worth investigating?

 

If she made a complaint and it was ignored, then the party deserves to be in the pickle it currently finds itself in.

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If she made a complaint and it was ignored, then the party deserves to be in the pickle it currently finds itself in.

Hey, now you've caught up!

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