Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Joe Whitley

Hull's second KC stadium

49 posts in this topic

Your friend and ally Mr Parksider has written volumes on those lines.

 

He's neither my friend or ally, he is of of his own mind and thought.

 

I suspect though that he has said like me that competing for resources in an area diminishes the ability of clubs to expand.

 

Both can survive, one can thrive.

 

Its just some bloody simple maths.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's neither my friend or ally, he is of of his own mind and thought.

 

I suspect though that he has said like me that competing for resources in an area diminishes the ability of clubs to expand.

 

Both can survive, one can thrive.

 

Its just some bloody simple maths.

 

Is being a friend and ally incompatible with having ones own mind and thought.?  I didn't think so. The US and the UK for example.

 

I disagree with that synopsis. Wigan and St Helens compete for resources in the same area and both thrive. Hull and Hull KR  both were top dogs at the same time in the 1980's. Widnes and Warrington both have a huge resume of success from the same geographical footprint. So I guess the maths is not adding up exactly as supposed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is KC Lightstream a distant cousin of KC and The Sunshine Band?

Yes but a lot more underground.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is being a friend and ally incompatible with having ones own mind and thought.?  I didn't think so. The US and the UK for example.

 

I disagree with that synopsis. Wigan and St Helens compete for resources in the same area and both thrive. Hull and Hull KR  both were top dogs at the same time in the 1980's. Widnes and Warrington both have a huge resume of success from the same geographical footprint. So I guess the maths is not adding up exactly as supposed.

 

How many times do  I have to post the demographics before you understand.

 

South Lancashire is the most densely populated area outside of London.

 

Count populations, count averages, count, count count,.

 

Do the maths.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's neither my friend or ally, he is of of his own mind and thought.

I suspect though that he has said like me that competing for resources in an area diminishes the ability of clubs to expand.

Both can survive, one can thrive.

Its just some bloody simple maths.

If you think two clubs playing in a local area competing for resources is simple maths then you're looking at the wrong equations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How many times do  I have to post the demographics before you understand.

 

South Lancashire is the most densely populated area outside of London.

 

Count populations, count averages, count, count count,.

 

Do the maths.

 

Well here's some more numbers. 4 mega, big big Premiership soccer teams in the said South Lancashire metropolis sucking way pounds and fans. Quite recently it was 6.

 

Do teams averaging north of 40,000 not have an adverse effect on the lauded demographics. Doing the maths is all very well but you have to factor in all the various variables otherwise your conclusions are skewed or flawed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well here's some more numbers. 4 mega, big big Premiership soccer teams in the said South Lancashire metropolis sucking way pounds and fans. Quite recently it was 6.

 

Do teams averaging north of 40,000 not have an adverse effect on the lauded demographics. Doing the maths is all very well but you have to factor in all the various variables otherwise your conclusions are skewed or flawed.

 

You read but don't understand  :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suspect though that he has said like me that competing for resources in an area diminishes the ability of clubs to expand.

Both can survive, one can thrive.

 

Its just some bloody simple maths.

 

Resources are paying fans and professional players. Roughly 8-10K fans depending on the stadium deal and  the production of a couple of quality professionals a year to keep the playing squad going, is fair very very simple "maths" I would say.

 

However if you haven't got these resources there is the Koucash way. If your short of 6,000 fans just put £400 apiece into the coffers from your own wallet. If you've a fourth rate academy not producing players just go buy half a dozen off other clubs.

 

This is also the Hudgell way, we know the long stream of overseas players coming into the club, and the oft quoted £500K a year to cover the empty seats.

 

Hull 14,553 and Rovers 7,160 2007

Hull 11,201 and Rovers 7,495 2013

First Derby 2007 23,002 last derby 2013 19,064.

 

So the fan resource is dropping and as for the player resource the impending closure of Rovers fourth rate "poor" academy, the departure of top Hull lads to places like Wigan, and Mr. Pearson going into debt to team strengthen which has seen him fighting HKR for the same players is a worry. What to do?? Ask DSK.

 

As for the merger comparison with "Why not merge Saints and Wigan then" well they each have first class Number One academies, and crowds last year were 14,549 and 11,141. The maths add up there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Resources are paying fans and professional players. Roughly 8-10K fans depending on the stadium deal and  the production of a couple of quality professionals a year to keep the playing squad going, is fair very very simple "maths" I would say.

 

However if you haven't got these resources there is the Koucash way. If your short of 6,000 fans just put £400 apiece into the coffers from your own wallet. If you've a fourth rate academy not producing players just go buy half a dozen off other clubs.

 

This is also the Hudgell way, we know the long stream of overseas players coming into the club, and the oft quoted £500K a year to cover the empty seats.

 

Hull 14,553 and Rovers 7,160 2007

Hull 11,201 and Rovers 7,495 2013

First Derby 2007 23,002 last derby 2013 19,064.

 

So the fan resource is dropping and as for the player resource the impending closure of Rovers fourth rate "poor" academy, the departure of top Hull lads to places like Wigan, and Mr. Pearson going into debt to team strengthen which has seen him fighting HKR for the same players is a worry. What to do?? Ask DSK.

 

As for the merger comparison with "Why not merge Saints and Wigan then" well they each have first class Number One academies, and crowds last year were 14,549 and 11,141. The maths add up there.

 

The numbers add up if Saints and Wigan merge as regards your one mega club in a small geographical area hypothesis. A merger would loose a good number of fans and from those averages you would end up with around 18,000 playing at a Rugby League specific stadium in st Helens and dropping the soccer dominated and rented stadium in Wigan. Sellouts every game. Your dream come true.

 

But you want to keep them as separate going concerns because they are both successful clubs even though they are the anti argument to your only one team can survive in a small area stratagem. Which is it. Is an area only able to  sustain one club ? or Are clubs to be exempt from this hypothesis because they prove it to be flawed ? You can't have your cake and eat it.

 

Given the Saints Wigan successes and given the historical dual successes of FC and KR, it is highly possible that the City of Hull can sustain two SL sides and ultimately the game will be better off for those successes. Hull KR have had their wobbles but overall seem to be making credible progress.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Indeed

 

What you and your friend and ally, Padge, to whose defence you are here rushing, mean is that if I or any others who disagree with your self appointed conclusions annoy you enough or keep refuting your points of view, then you resort to allegations of stupidity or misunderstanding like some spoilt children in a playground.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You jump t

 

What you and your friend and ally, Padge, to whose defence you are here rushing, mean is that if I or any others who disagree with your self appointed conclusions annoy you enough or keep refuting your points of view, then you resort to allegations of stupidity or misunderstanding like some spoilt children in a playground.

 

You jump to the conclusion that if I say competing for limited resources limits growth then I am saying clubs should merge, it is an often made mistake, especially by you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I or any others who disagree with your self appointed conclusions annoy you enough or keep refuting your points of view, then you resort to allegations of stupidity or misunderstanding like some spoilt children in a playground.

You disagree with absolutely everything I say, It's a default position of yours.

It's not a "self appointed conclusion" to state that Rovers crowds have gone nowhere in eight years, they have won nothing or been near, their academy is fourth rate and may be closed and they leak £500,000 a year. These are the facts.

From these you conclude Rovers have "made credible progress".

Your a grand old man of RL I know, I don't mean to offend you, but this is how it is. As I keep saying I say black you say white, I say red you say white. Fair enough let's agree to disagree no need for us to reply to each other.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyway, back to the stadium name...."Lightstream"

 

It's a shame about the spare "g" as otherwise I've discovered you can get "sh*t rl team" from the remaining letters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You disagree with absolutely everything I say, It's a default position of yours.

It's not a "self appointed conclusion" to state that Rovers crowds have gone nowhere in eight years, they have won nothing or been near, their academy is fourth rate and may be closed and they leak £500,000 a year. These are the facts.

From these you conclude Rovers have "made credible progress".

Your a grand old man of RL I know, I don't mean to offend you, but this is how it is. As I keep saying I say black you say white, I say red you say white. Fair enough let's agree to disagree no need for us to reply to each other.....

 

I certainly disagree with most of what you say but not all. I agree for instance that he 3 x 8 system is bogus.

 

You come from the glass is half empty view of thin gs RL and I come from the glass is half full position so it is inevitable we will disagree a lot.

 

Your view of Hull KR is from your half empty viewpoint. My take on it is that Hull KR have come from CC1 to SL, growing their crowds from 1,000 plus to 7,000 plus that's a 700% increase. The club made the playoffs last year. Their academy, whilst  maybe not the best is light years better than it was when it didn't exist in CC1. Craven Park was a dilapidated mess. Now it has an excellent new pitch, an expanded side stand and a brand new state of the art end stand. Money has been spent. They have a very long term lease on the ground whereas Hull rent the KC1 stadium. The losses of 500,000 are troubling but are known and Hudgell has given plenty of advanced warning to enable the club to deal with it. I am optimistic for their progress. This next season will be their first since the new stand was completed. Lets see if it has a positive effect on attendances. It certainly worked for FC when they moved the Boulevard.

 

Yes, I am old  but to put that into the argument is the same as saying I err because I am black or female. Their is no reason for that to be part of this or any other discussion.

 

I respect your contributions to this forum but I reserve my right to disagree. I am willing to bet that if we ever met we could have a beer and a real old ding dong discussion on all things RL.

 

I will continue to counter your points when I disagree because the Goebels effect of telling and repeating facts often enough instills the belief that they are correct has to be contested.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your view of Hull KR is from your half empty viewpoint. My take on it is that Hull KR have come from CC1 to SL, growing their crowds from 1,000 plus to 7,000 plus that's a 700% increase.

 

OK so you don't want to have a sensible debate. I'll leave you on ignore...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK so you don't want to have a sensible debate. I'll leave you on ignore...

 

Please yourself. What is not sensible about my points, pray tell ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My head hurts.

 

Please someone merge us and let's move on and watch some good "footy" in front of big crowds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My head hurts.

Please someone merge us and let's move on and watch some good "footy" in front of big crowds.

Urgh. Not this again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Urgh. Not this again.

 

Just so much wasted money in a sport and city that cannot afford it.

 

Taking in the NRL news ahead of the Auckland Nines and new season. Memberships up 9% across the board, massive new stadium sponsorship deal for Gold Coast, impossible to feel confident with any of my picks in any of the 16 slots, so excited by the whole strength and direction of the league as it pushes the sport forward on a global basis entirely alone.

 

In my home country, meantime, we have tiny teams "rubbing shoulders with" (this board's words, not mine) much bigger teams they cannot hope to emulate, all within a stone's throw of each other, zero expansion plans and a return to the archaic notion of promotion and relegation that merely bolsters the big boys at every turn. While precisely no-one in the wider public or media, quite rightly, bats an eyelid.

 

It's all very sad.

 

Enjoy your little parochial team and your little parochial sport.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyway, back to the stadium name...."Lightstream"

 

It's a shame about the spare "g" as otherwise I've discovered you can get "sh*t rl team" from the remaining letters.

 

You have way too much time on your hands, old friend :)

 

The name has really grown on me. Stadium name changes are not uncommon now. Clubs need a way to further maximise their income and in a sport desperately trying to generate futher finance, it must be only seen as a good move for us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just so much wasted money in a sport and city that cannot afford it.

 

In my home country, meantime, we have tiny teams "rubbing shoulders with" (this board's words, not mine) much bigger teams they cannot hope to emulate, all within a stone's throw of each other and a return to the archaic notion of promotion and relegation that merely bolsters the big boys at every turn.

Enjoy your little parochial team and your little parochial sport.

Oof steady DSK. The "tiny teams" under the P & R system to be adopted now have the chance to put up or shut up, Indeed the funding "bolsters the big boys" so it may shut them up, but you may find Mr. Hudgell is aligned with the big boys and is set to receive enough money to wipe his annual £500,000 deficit off the books.

It's a bit of a game changer by the looks of it, in that the SKY money lifts some clubs with inadequate fan bases out of the red.

Enthused??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



League Express - Mon 24th July 2017

Rugby League World - August 2017