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BatleyFanAndy

Batley Attacking Play

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We made the grand final (and with a little bit more luck would have won!!!) last year for god sake. I for one was very very happy with what we got!!!!!!! anyone else!? Or are we expecting a challenge cup final too this time?.. The way some people talk on here you would think we had thousands to spend and had gates of 5000 every week.

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We made the grand final (and with a little bit more luck would have won!!!) last year for god sake. I for one was very very happy with what we got!!!!!!! anyone else!? Or are we expecting a challenge cup final too this time?.. The way some people talk on here you would think we had thousands to spend and had gates of 5000 every week.

Agreed,

 

I would like to add it was very much the same last season too. For the first 2 thirds of the season we played a very conservative, low risk brand of football, and it was only in the final third we tried to open things up a bit, this may have coincided with the better weather. We had a mass exodus of players last season, losing 10 first choice players. It is therefore a bit unrealistic to think we will be playing Harlom Globetrotteresque rugby at this stage of the season. 

 

When rebuilding the structures of what is essentially a brand new team, I think the only logical thing to do is sort the defence out first, then work on the attack. 

It is fair to say that I never thought we would give anyone a hiding last season, then we blew Barrow away scoring 50 odd against them and scored 60 odd against Workington in the first round of the play off's.

 

This season is by far the most important for years with the split next season, so I'd rather be a little bored at times and win games 14-6 rather than play exciting football and lose 42-40 every week.

 

I read lots on here last season, about people staying away after we had a bad run mid-season, and how they were bored of watching us. How many of those people stayed away from the play off games? 

 

Regarding Blacky, I over heard a couple of old boys talking at the Halifax game, so it may be just rumour; but they were saying that Black was suffering with injury for a lot of last season and isn't quite right yet. If true, that might be the reason he has looked a bit ineffective. The only thing I do know for certain, if Black doesn't create things, we have had no-one else who has done it. I am looking forward to see how Leatherbarrow and Leak go. Leak is a great distributor and looks to need time to find his feet a bit more but he hasn't looked bad at all from what I have seen of him, and from what I've seen of Leatherbarrow's kicking game, he is the best field kicker we have had for as long as I can remember.

 

Onwards and Upwards, GO Doggies!!!

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Whilst we were re-building over the closed season I continually asked about the lack of new backs. I also have continually mentioned the inability of Black and Moore to break down defences, their influence near the line and their field kicking. I think in Leatherbarrow we have a player who can field kick, 2 40/20's in 5 minutes at Dewsbury was more than I ever saw Moore make. Kicks near the line have been aimless affairs. Yes, I believe we are expecting big forwards to do the business near the line, instead of the guile of a ball handler,and I think most of us are pinning hopes on young Leak. We really do need an influx of backs, as, has been previously mentioned, there is no cover whatsoever except for converted 2nd rowers, much as I feel Bretherton and say Chandler could fill in, they are not the answer. I would take issue though over many fans' attitude to Faal. Due to any number of excuses/problems we haven't seen him on an extended run in the team, but when he has played he has made a number of good breaks, can tackle and adds size to our midfield. I would hope that now he has been given a proper centre's squad number, this signals JK's intention to play him and get him in shape. I would also agree with a number of comments, that no-one will fancy taking on our pack, whoever takes up the places. Maybe we need to take more advantage of Giants' backs who played at Dewsbury,who looked bright and useful. We need to wait and see, but can't afford to wait too long.  

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Whilst we were re-building over the closed season I continually asked about the lack of new backs. I also have continually mentioned the inability of Black and Moore to break down defences, their influence near the line and their field kicking. I think in Leatherbarrow we have a player who can field kick, 2 40/20's in 5 minutes at Dewsbury was more than I ever saw Moore make. Kicks near the line have been aimless affairs. Yes, I believe we are expecting big forwards to do the business near the line, instead of the guile of a ball handler,and I think most of us are pinning hopes on young Leak. We really do need an influx of backs, as, has been previously mentioned, there is no cover whatsoever except for converted 2nd rowers, much as I feel Bretherton and say Chandler could fill in, they are not the answer. I would take issue though over many fans' attitude to Faal. Due to any number of excuses/problems we haven't seen him on an extended run in the team, but when he has played he has made a number of good breaks, can tackle and adds size to our midfield. I would hope that now he has been given a proper centre's squad number, this signals JK's intention to play him and get him in shape. I would also agree with a number of comments, that no-one will fancy taking on our pack, whoever takes up the places. Maybe we need to take more advantage of Giants' backs who played at Dewsbury,who looked bright and useful. We need to wait and see, but can't afford to wait too long.  

If Faal has learned to tackle, then he has made progress with the dogs, because it was a major weakness when he was with us. Would have been in SL by now given an injury free run and an improvement in defence IMO. Mercenery bu ggar but a hell of a player on his day.

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I think Batley's defence will mean you have another great season despite lacking the resources of some of the other top clubs. I'm a Fev fan, but Batley still worry me as an opponent because although other teams might have made fancier off-season signings, you're still coached by John Kear and you're still going to be tough to break down. Batley were the only team in the top 5 last season that Fev didn't put 40 past at one stage last season, in fact we never looked like coming close to that against you, and that defence and team spirit will mean you're always a danger; if the Bulldogs score three tries against you, there's a good chance you're going to lose. Understandable that fans always want to see improvements and exciting new signings, but don't lose sight of what you've got imo.

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Its early days yet for the team and whilst I too am slightly concerned about our lack of flair near the line I think we shall be OK against most of the league with the exception of the usual suspects!

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I think I have read/heard somewhere that JK's philosophy is if you do not concede more than 12 points, you will win more games than you lose.

 

This ties in with TPH assessment above that if Batley score 3 tries against you then you are in trouble.

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thats all well and good, trouble is Batley can't currently score 3 times in a game......or so they seem to be thinking. :drag:

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thats all well and good, trouble is Batley can't currently score 3 times in a game......or so they seem to be thinking. :drag:

Not to worry. I'm sure that, with the benefit of some fine tuning, by the end of the season we'll be in a good position to once again embarass clubs with a playing budget ten times the size of ours.

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Cant take that away from ya !!  :drag:  

problem with that theory is that you had a much stronger squad last season than you do this......

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Purely subjective. As is the case with all opinions on this thread, who knows before the season starts!

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Cant take that away from ya !! :drag:

problem with that theory is that you had a much stronger squad last season than you do this......

How so?? Oh, righhhht. We couldn't possibly have been able to adequately replace the four world-class superstars signed from us by Featherstone, could we?

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Based on the form of the players that left the fold at the end of 2013, we do indeed have a stronger squad this year. The only problem is, a few other Championship sides can say that too. The question is, will our improvement match that of our more, ahem, illustrious rivals.

To concede 30 points in nearly three hours of RL against Halifax and St Helens speaks volumes about our progress.

JK will always concentrate on D. That's his MO. Perhaps once Matty Blaymire has had more time at the club we'll see our attacking options improve. Who knows.

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Bring back "linners bust" long ball out of the back. All sides knew about it in the nfp but it still brought the score

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Sean richardson tip back from kick off!

We haven't had anyone since Sean left who was prepared to compete for the high ball.  We just let the opposition catch it and then tackle them.

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Was about to mention the Stainburn-Geary move as well. Remember the John Carroll one where he would drive for the lane and leave the ball behind him on the floor for the next man? Never worked much,that one!! I wonder if JK ever reads fans' comments, and whether it makes him feel good that we trust him so much, or whether it heaps pressure on him?

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... there is no cover whatsoever except for converted 2nd rowers, much as I feel Bretherton and say Chandler could fill in, they are not the answer. 

 

You say that Phildog, but I'm not sure.

 

The game has changed so much over the years that old fashioned centres (the Carl Gibson type of centre) have just about disappeared from the game, a bit like the old ball playing Brad Fittler, Wally Lewis type of loose forwards. In the current game I really cannot see much difference between the roll of second rowers, loose forwards and centres. To my mind, they all have to be big, strong and fast enough to bust tackles or beat men, they also need to be able to get the ball away to the support, and they all have to be good strong defenders too. I am struggling to name a good British centre at any club, maybe excluding Callum Watkins at Leeds, that are not really second rowers playing in the centre. I cannot think of any others off hand that I would consider international class centres, certainly Cudjoe isn't good enough for GB in my book but it's only my opinion.

 

Looking at the best centres in the game over the last 20 years or so, since the likes of Mal Meninga and Noel "Crusher" Cleal etc. the most successful centres in recent years have tended to be big lads that have been built more like 2nd rowers than old fashioned centres. The best 2 English centres I can remember are Paul Newlove and Gary Connolly. These two were more in the mould of 2nd rowers rather than centres, both standing over 6 feet tall, 15 or 16 stone and could move. Then you have the likes of the Iro brothers, certainly one of them if not both ended up in the second two, through to the likes of Jarryd Hayne, Michael Jennings and Greg Inglis they are all big lads that would not look out of place in the 2nd row. The Aussies seem to take the best players and improve them by switching them to fullback, where they have to be to good at reading the game and spot gaps etc. so they do not become one trick ponies. Lockyer was another who learned his trade at fullback and turned out to be one of the best halfbacks in the game. Most of the Aussie 3 quarter line could play anywhere, Fullback, Wing or Centre, however that could be because they are just better players and can switch positions .

 

Over recent years, the game has become a lot less open. Probably because there is so much wrestling and holding down in the tackle compared to what there was in say the mid-nineties. The powers that "be" don't want to see the 80 - 0 scoreline's that this faster brand of open rugby created, and there are good arguments for both fast play the balls and the slower wrestling and dominance referee defined slower ruck area. IMO they need to get the balance right though, and it is far too slow for my liking. 

 

Whether we like it or not, the job for most players now, even wingers, is to tire the opposition out so the halfbacks and hooker can take advantage late on in the game by exploiting tiring defences. Rettie and McGillvary play the game more like prop forwards than wingers. Going back 10 or 20 years ago until the likes of Vainikolo (sp?) could you imagined having wingers that played like prop forwards? I couldn't wingers were all like Potts, quick, agile and could beat men on a tanner.

 

Maybe with the exception of Wigan, most teams in SL played the percentage game in most of the rounds I saw. Sheffield and Halifax are teams that play in this way too, it is boring to watch at times, but I don't think anyone could say it is not effective. The problem is which would spectators prefer, a winning team or a team that is entertaining, but you can't have both every week. It is extremely rare at even the highest levels to see a team that delivers both week in week out.

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I don't know about wingers of the last 10 to 20 years, TNT, but in earlier days I seem to remember the great Billy Boston playing prop, whilst Joe Levula is the biggest winger that I can recall playing for Batley.  Joe was bigger than the most if not all Batleys forward.

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A little before my time Bill hehe. Although I have seen a few videos of Boston and boy are you right, he was a big lad, but he couldn't half move for a guy of his size. Sadly these guys seem to be very thin on the ground over here. The Aussies seem to have loads of them though.

 

I suppose the point I was trying to make was, except for half backs, most rugby players seem to be of a similar mould in the modern game. It doesn't really matter what position they are, most players, forwards or backs have very similar attributes and very similar roles, so players can tend to play a number of positions, certainly they seem far more at home out of position than they used to. It could be just my memory playing tricks on me though.

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The points that you make TNT are not unreasonable given that wingers are routinely used on the first drive these days.  We have also seen a lot of very big centres in recent years, even in the Championship, whilst the way that the kicking game on the last tackle has developed seems to have been at the expense of classic wing play. This was sometimes a source of frustration last year given the quality of the wingers that we had and the wonderful finishing that we saw from them when given the chance.

 

I was being a bit pedantic picking up on your wingers/prop comment, but I certainly don't disagree with the main thrust of your argument. We may see some classic centre play from Faal, if his defence is sound enough to keep him in the side this year.

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