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Kenilworth Tiger

1 in 9 schools don't have English as the first language

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Why do you say that?

I find that a lot of people* who are generally dismissive of the concerns that many have about the impact of migration tend to live in leafy suburbs and send their kids to all-white schools. Funnily enough I make a living out of teaching migrants.

 

* by no means all

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Teachers have numerous children in their care and are responsible for teaching multiple subjects (even at early years) along with wiping noses, sorting clothing issues and overseeing table manners and personal hygiene. To then turn multiple children who can't understand each other or the teacher into a person who can communicate with everyone is indeed a triumph.

I wasn't implying the teachers don't do a very hard job and do it well. More that they shouldn't be put in the situation in the first place and instead concentrate on simply teaching.

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Well actually my daughter was one of only 3 kids in her reception class who's first language was english. By the time she was 11 the teachers said it was one of the most academically promising classes they'd ever had. she's 17 now and doing her A levels and looking at universities.

she's also passably conversant with colloquial polish and urdu.

While I am obviously pleased for you and your daughter, the fact is she was starting behind the 8 ball to begin with and I think that being one of three pupils speaking English in her class is plain ridiculous.

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To repeat: just because English isn't someone's first language does not mean they will not be capable of speaking English.

 

And Mr May's London example is perfectly valid.  High rates of middle-class drop out, high rates of multilingualism, high rates of deprivation ... and schools achieving excellent results.

 

But, best ignore it because it cocks up the thesis.

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To repeat: just because English isn't someone's first language does not mean they will not be capable of speaking English.

When has anyone said it would? I know that kids can adapt because in the mid to late 70's we had several pupils join both from the Cyprus crisis and the 'boat people' come to my schools. They all did fine. But that is different from whole schools not having English as their native tongue.

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When has anyone said it would? I know that kids can adapt because in the mid to late 70's we had several pupils join both from the Cyprus crisis and the 'boat people' come to my schools. They all did fine. But that is different from whole schools not having English as their native tongue.

 

But nothing in the article suggests these schools are doing any worse than schools where 100% English first language white children come bounding through the door of a morning.

 

I've only looked at the top one (Sacred Heart, Sandwell) but in the school league table it seems to sit comfortably in the upper half of the table for expected English and Maths and very near the top for value added.

 

So, the issue has to be: is there something wrong with schools where children do not speak English as a first language (repeating: there is nothing at all in the article or in people's experience to say that they cannot speak English at all).

 

Should these children not go to school?  Should their families be forced to speak the Queen's English at home?

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But nothing in the article suggests these schools are doing any worse than schools where 100% English first language white children come bounding through the door of a morning.

 

I've only looked at the top one (Sacred Heart, Sandwell) but in the school league table it seems to sit comfortably in the upper half of the table for expected English and Maths and very near the top for value added.

 

So, the issue has to be: is there something wrong with schools where children do not speak English as a first language (repeating: there is nothing at all in the article or in people's experience to say that they cannot speak English at all).

 

Should these children not go to school?  Should their families be forced to speak the Queen's English at home?

 

They should be either segregated (to stop the white kids being held back) or dispersed throughout loads of schools, depending on whichever anti-immigration thesis I'm trying to defend at any one given point.

 

I'm sure a quick text-search of the UKIP website will deliver a surefire 'solution' to this 'problem', although don't rely on it still being current UKIP policy.

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They should be either segregated (to stop the white kids being held back) or dispersed throughout loads of schools, depending on whichever anti-immigration thesis I'm trying to defend at any one given point.

I'm sure a quick text-search of the UKIP website will deliver a surefire 'solution' to this 'problem', although don't rely on it still being current UKIP policy.

So only white kids speak English as their mother tongue now? That's an interesting argument.

Its a bizarre state of affairs when someone voicing concerns about so many schools not having English as the main language, in England, are instantly labelled UKIP members or racists or something.

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So only white kids speak English as their mother tongue now? That's an interesting argument.

Its a bizarre state of affairs when someone voicing concerns about so many schools not having English as the main language, in England, are instantly labelled UKIP members or racists or something.

 

But, unless I'm missing something, the main language of the school is English.  Lessons are being taught in English, exams taken in English etc etc.

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But, unless I'm missing something, the main language of the school is English. Lessons are being taught in English, exams taken in English etc etc.

And if most of the school don't speak English upon starting school then that's fine and anyone concerned is racist?

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And if most of the school don't speak English upon starting school then that's fine and anyone concerned is racist?

 

But nobody has said they can't speak English just that they don't have English as a first language.  And, as I said, that might be a problem but often it is not.  And it is also not true to assume that everyone who comes from a first-language English background turns up speaking good enough English to get by - there is a problem where that isn't the case.

 

I haven't accused anyone of being a racist.

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But nobody has said they can't speak English just that they don't have English as a first language. And, as I said, that might be a problem but often it is not. And it is also not true to assume that everyone who comes from a first-language English background turns up speaking good enough English to get by - there is a problem where that isn't the case.

I haven't accused anyone of being a racist.

I know you haven't.

English should be the first choice language in schools in England. As should Spanish in Spain etc. Saying 'pupils AB & C did fine' is missing the wider issues.

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English should be the first choice language in schools in England. 

 

But it is.  Children are being taught in English even in schools where the majority of children don't speak English as a first language.

 

(I'm assuming this doesn't apply to free schools and independent schools by the way.)

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But it is. Children are being taught in English even in schools where the majority of children don't speak English as a first language.

(I'm assuming this doesn't apply to free schools and independent schools by the way.)

There are schools, certainly in Bradford, where the entire intake of the school don't speak English.

This won't disadvantage them because????

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I know you haven't.

English should be the first choice language in schools in England. As should Spanish in Spain etc. Saying 'pupils AB & C did fine' is missing the wider issues.

 

Depends where in Spain you're talking about.

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There are schools, certainly in Bradford, where the entire intake of the school don't speak English.

This won't disadvantage them because????

 

Don't speak English.  Or don't speak English to each other?

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Don't speak English. Or don't speak English to each other?

Unable to speak English.

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Depends where in Spain you're talking about.

I was only generalising. German in Germany then.

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To repeat: just because English isn't someone's first language does not mean they will not be capable of speaking English.

 

And Mr May's London example is perfectly valid.  High rates of middle-class drop out, high rates of multilingualism, high rates of deprivation ... and schools achieving excellent results.

 

But, best ignore it because it cocks up the thesis.

Why highlight London and not Bradford? It's not exactly rosy.

 

But aside, I think you are being disingenuous with the "It may not be their fist language but it does not mean that they will not be capable of speaking English".

 

That's quite true of an adult or even a teenager but it's nonsense of a 4 year-old. There may well be some bilingual 4 year-olds but by-and-large they are monolingual. If they learn English later on then that's great but the native anglophone kids who have to wait for everyone else to catch up and who won't get a decent education seem to be forgotten.

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Posted · Hidden by ckn, February 11, 2014 - No reason given

Everyone knows he has a point.

It's a nasty racist point, as all of the commentators in the article have pointed out  ... but none of them have said that it's a lie.

 

It's a prevailing factor in Bradford schools and adds to the difficulties faced by primary school children where English is not the language of the majority of their classmates.

 

My daughter is a teacher and her school has a large proportion of challenged pupils, and they are well accommodated and liked by their classmates. Unfortunately, some will never have the same support and quality of life after they have left school.

 

Griffin's remarks may have been a cheap jibe aimed at a racial grouping, but it's an indictment on the political parties, the media and the NHS that he's the only one to publicise the genetic problems with inter-marriage between cousins over generations.

For the sake of their children, we have to hope that airing the issue will lead to a prevention of it continuing to happen on the current scale.

 

Incidentally, I have no idea what the "current scale" of genetical disorder is in Bradford's schoolchildren. It's not the sort of thing that is openy released via the media into the public domain. Similarly, the T&A has not allowed comments on its article.

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Posted · Hidden by ckn, February 11, 2014 - No reason given

 he's the only one to publicise the genetic problems with inter-marriage between cousins over generations.

 

Or, to put it another way, the BBC were talking about it in 2012.

 

Based on an NHS funded major research programme.

 

But, you were saying something about the filthy racist with his vile views being the only one to talk about it.  Do go on ...

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