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absentee thoughtlord

Get in there, Marwan!

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Hard to argue with much of that,  to be fair.

 

Really? You think Doncaster can be a Superleague side?

 

No money, no player production and 700 fans.

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Really? You think Doncaster can be a Superleague side?

 

No money, no player production and 700 fans.

London were in almost exactly that position when they were fast tracked into SL. T hey had no money, no player production ( this was before London junior Rl's growth) and 700 fans.

They did have an exemption from the overseas quota though.

20 years later they are still in SL, just. Of course Doncaster can be a SL side. What was the state of Catalans before SL. No money, no fans. What was the state of Huddersfield in the late 20th century, no money, no fans, no player production. Need I go on.

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Of course Doncaster can be a SL side.  Need I go on.

 

Do please list all the places than can draw 8-10,000 fans and can produce two or three professional players a year. I'll start your list of Clubs that have potential to be Superleague clubs that are not in SL.

 

1. Doncaster 700 fans in a soccer town, no junior RL presence of note.

2.

3.

4. etc

 

Let's see if you can get it down to Bramley.

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Really? You think Doncaster can be a Superleague side?

 

No money, no player production and 700 fans.

 

 

Well you know me, I think Hunslet can be a SL club if they can attract a Dr MK.

 

You think It's about numbers of Fans and players produced, I think It's about Money and the quality of what's on show.

 

I think in the end it will be as you say the top 8 or 10 clubs will be SL, below that will be a lower level of game, Where we differ is that you think those clubs will be decided by who get's the biggest crowds and who runs the best Academy, I think it will be about who has money and can be competitive.

 

You have seen the frenzy over the increase in Sky money, and yet you still refuse to accept that it is the main funding of the game, I think it will just grow and grow. Exactly like any other sport. ( bit slower than some maybe )

 

That is not to say that areas like Wigan , Leeds etc won't keep producing players, and for that reason they are likely to always be amongst the better clubs. Kids will still want to be the next Tomkins, or Brisco.

 

It is just not possible to draw up a set of rules for Money men that say they can only invest in club X.Y.Z. They didn't get to be millionaires, by being told where they could invest. MK must see what he want's in Salford, Good luck to him and Salford for me.

 

All sorts of systems have been forced through to cure the games problems, and still are being,  Eventually the fittest will be the ones left, and will be SL. I dont know who those clubs will be, Some of them are easy enough to pick, some will depend how far their owners are prepared to go, and IMO most of it will depend in the years to come , How much Sky are plowing in.

 

I can see how you and many others will find this unsatisfactory, It's not something i am advocating myself, But you are one for looking at history to back up opinions. Look back 20 years and see what saved the game ,

 

Tell me there had been a sudden upsurge in Fans. It was Sky money that improved the game and it is still doing it, Like it or not it is happening.

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Do please list all the places than can draw 8-10,000 fans and can produce two or three professional players a year. I'll start your list of Clubs that have potential to be Superleague clubs that are not in SL.

 

1. Doncaster 700 fans in a soccer town, no junior RL presence of note.

2.

3.

4. etc

 

Let's see if you can get it down to Bramley.

See post 178 from GiantStrides. It's all about potential and money. The following current SL clubs do not average 8,000 but are still there:- Huddersfield, Salford, Widnes, Hull KR, Wakefield, Castleford, London. So your basic set of standards appear to be wrong from the get go. You set those standards for SL potential even though half the current SL don't meet them. MONEY is the key and all else can follow from that.

With money and time the following places have the POTENTIAL to reach SL. Note I said potential.

Barrow, York, Oldham, Sheffield, Halifax, Leigh, Toulouse, Featherstone, Gloucester, Crusaders, Gateshead and even your poor old Hunslet or at least a second club in Leeds.

Note I did not say these clubs are ready for SL TODAY. These are clubs with various types of POTENTIAL to get to SL given the right set of circumstances, the biggest one, as Giants Strides says is MONEY.

Way down the road even further away there is Coventry, Nottingham,maybe Skolars. The places with the population and needing only money to begin to grow in RL maybe even up to SL is large.

The player production argument, whilst important, is not crucial. With money teams can poach juniors and established stars from other areas. Salford are doing just that. Wigan, Hull and Leeds have been doing it for decades.

Now maybe none of these clubs will ever get to SL or even close. The possibility though is there.

Who would have thought that Huddersfield, who were on life support at one time, would be in SL ?

Who would have thought that Hull KR, who were in almost the same dire straights would be in SL.?

Who would have thought that Wakefield in the second tier on sub 2000 gates would get to and remain in SL for 10 years plus.

Who would have thought last year that Salford would not only survive but flourish ?

Who would have thought that a floundering team on small gates in Perpignan would be in SL ?

Leeds have been in serious financial trouble, so have Widnes, so have Wigan, so have Bradford and Hull.

The only constant in RL is change. Your refusal to accept change, your insistence that the SL will have the same clubs in it in perpetuity is even rejected by the RFL and half of the SL clubs ( turkeys voting for Xmas ? ).

If Sky had come along in the 1950's, would Castleford, Hull KR, London, Catalans, Widnes or Salford have been in SL ?

Featherstone, Halifax, Barrow, Hunslet, Swinton and Workington would have been though.

Times and circumstances change. Ring fencing is flawed. Sports clubs, RL clubs, have cycles of prosperity and decline. They come and go. You cannot pontificate like King Canute and hope to control the waves.

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http://www.itv.com/news/granada/update/2014-02-11/red-devils-catching-fire/

For the sceptics 

As I think Wilde once said "There's only one thing worse than being talked about........."

And the truth is Our Sport as been left out of that arena, I know this will not convince some but if you look at league on the web, go to matches with family of friends, have Sky and or buy a publication dedicated to league it's all too easy to forget that the mainstream media has ignored us to a large extent for far too long. 

 

The title of the thread says it all!

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http://www.itv.com/news/granada/update/2014-02-11/red-devils-catching-fire/

For the sceptics 

As I think Wilde once said "There's only one thing worse than being talked about........."

And the truth is Our Sport as been left out of that arena, I know this will not convince some but if you look at league on the web, go to matches with family of friends, have Sky and or buy a publication dedicated to league it's all too easy to forget that the mainstream media has ignored us to a large extent for far too long. 

 

The title of the thread says it all!

 

Couldn't agree more. In fact i would go as far as to say the media has been allowed to ignore us.

I would think that the vast majority of people who know about League," Outside of the heartlands and the odd enclave " will know about it from the TV.

 

I have watched for 60 years, and truth be told the impression that always came to me was of a sport that knew it's place. In the earlier days of TV, The CC, or whatever, it always looked like and was portrayed as a secondary sport, played on antiquated grounds. The BBC made Leagues best known person , into something of a joke figure who came to be known as Uncle Eddie .

 

I have even heard people boasting about it only being played in Yorks/ Lancs,/Cumb, Every body else being to soft to play League.

 

League has to distance itself as far from that past as it can, It is getting decent money from SKY now and there is more to be had. There are new Stadiums in use and more looking promising, This is the chance for league to strut it's stuff.

 

The world cup was great, (and so it should be ) Forget about basking in the glory of it, Capitalise on it, Get people in place who can shove league down everyones throat " just like Union does" and like Dr MK does,

 

If league doesn't forget the past, who has been great in the past , who could be great in the future ,If only this was done or that happened, concetrate on now , Who is good now, Make the game so good that TV companies will compete to get it.

 

Just my opinion , But in the next few years the fittest will survive and raise their game, below that will be the clubs who are destined to become the supply line of players. I make no predictions about who the elite clubs will be by the time the TV contract is renewed, but they are likely to be more or less perminent.

 

I just can't wait to watch Wolves and Saints tommorrow "from my armchair"  Thousands and thousands just like me, If that doesn't show people where the future lies ,I dont know what will.

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"a sport that knew it's place" Does sum up a lot of what's been previous Giant Strides  "Make the game so good that TV companies will compete to get it." I think it already is, but a sense of complete difference form ru, a clear, identifiable identity is what's important. A few years ago we had the Red Zone from 10 metres out and people pick up on things like that in order to comprehend a sport they're new to and from then on to excite them in the moment it comes close. The trouble has always been that RL will try it for a moment then give it up! A sport only needs a few key markers like the Red Zone to create a sense of what it has to offer that you can't get anywhere else.

"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

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"a sport that knew it's place" Does sum up a lot of what's been previous Giant Strides  "Make the game so good that TV companies will compete to get it." I think it already is, but a sense of complete difference form ru, a clear, identifiable identity is what's important. A few years ago we had the Red Zone from 10 metres out and people pick up on things like that in order to comprehend a sport they're new to and from then on to excite them in the moment it comes close. The trouble has always been that RL will try it for a moment then give it up! A sport only needs a few key markers like the Red Zone to create a sense of what it has to offer that you can't get anywhere else.

"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

 

 

Interesting post.

 

Regards the quote, To me we need to remember the past with fondness, Remember the hights it has risen too, in the Heartlands, Remember the magnificent players that have graced the game, and realise that those days are not coming back.

 

We have new hights to reach now, new great players to appreciate, For me the future is with the ILs and MKs.

 

League is a modern sport now played in good stadia, by great athletes, It deserves to be seen Nationwide and it will be via TV, and hopefully it's popularity will grow, Lets not get bogged down trying to preserve the past.

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Giantstrides "To me we need to remember the past with fondness..."  and  "League is a modern sport now played in good stadia, by great athletes, It deserves to be seen Nationwide ...." with you all the way on both points....

Personally I've loved every minute of RL since I first discovered it was the best thing on the menu. Still feel the allure of the past and also miss the biff! Thanks to youtube there is access to all sorts of games (and biff) and footage of players I never saw. One of the reasons I picked the Red Zone episode is because it shows you don't have to change the rules necessarily to make it more interesting or different ( noticeably so because people still say things like League that's the one with the play the ball isn't it and that's if you're lucky enough to meet some one who's awake ) It's also a wonderful example of a perfectly good idea that seemed to last a very short time and was dropped for no discernible reason. When people have a go at the RFL even when they're " Doing Good, Running Strong!" I think it's where they gave up too soon on so many ideas that they have really been at fault. But that's a thread in itself!

 

PS There are those who have a go at MK but to get ITV to do a report like the one I put up in a previous post , to get people to sit up and take notice,  in a world where seeing beyond Man Blue v Man Red is almost akin to Columbus saying the world is round to flat  earthers is amazing!  

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