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Joe Whitley

Hock slams 'coward' McNamara

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I believe that the two incidents where players went out for a drink and the way the coach dealt with them showed that there was a lack of respect for the coach throughout the squad.    I couldn't see this being the problem it became under say, Shaun Wane or Paul Anderson who I'm sure would have dealt with it quietly in camp.    Yes, one or two players let themselves down by disregarding the no drinking condition and they have to live with it but the coach shouldn't walk away from it looking all "lilywhite" because he handled it very poorly IMO.

As the national coach, there was a lot more media scrutiny on McNamara than there would be on club coaches like Wane or Anderson. Much harder to deal with such things quietly when not just the local press, but the national press scent a story that can be blown up a bit.

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After the way Ferres played in the world cup I doubt any international coach would look at Hock again.

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After the way Ferres played in the world cup I doubt any international coach would look at Hock again.

Ferres went from not making the cut, straight to a starting place in the team. He took his chance magnificently. 

 

If Hock ever does want to play for England again, he'll have be good enough to dislodge Ferres.

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After the way Ferres played in the world cup I doubt any international coach would look at Hock again.

spot on....ferres was one of our standout performers imo

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Reading about Wigan in the late 80s/early 90s, lots of those players were awkward and hated each other. The greats were given far greater leaway than some might consider healthy. The result was the greatest team our game ever saw in the open era. You don't pick Hock without a tailored strategy for dealing with him and considering how the group will blend. Picking him and then failing to deal with him results in the worst of all worlds.

 

 

Hock is nowhere near good enough to warrant any kind of special treatment.   And that's that.

 

PS - off topic, but what is "the open era"? 

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It surely can't be that hard to not drink for six weeks. I agree with you, if he isn't willing to make the sacrifice he doesn't deserve a spot in the squad.

 

I agree.

 

Two weeks out from the Olympics, can you imagine Jess Ennis missing a training session because she was out on the sauce the night before?

 

The sheer amateurism of some of our "professional" athletes takes some beating IMO.

 

 

I'm not denying any RL player a drink.   But right before the biggest international tournament in a decade isn't the time.

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I'm not denying any RL player a drink.   But right before the biggest international tournament in a decade isn't the time.

 

 

What I can't understand is why the team can't have a couple of bottles and watch a film together in the hotel a couple of times a week.

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I believe that the two incidents where players went out for a drink and the way the coach dealt with them showed that there was a lack of respect for the coach throughout the squad.    I couldn't see this being the problem it became under say, Shaun Wane or Paul Anderson who I'm sure would have dealt with it quietly in camp.    Yes, one or two players let themselves down by disregarding the no drinking condition and they have to live with it but the coach shouldn't walk away from it looking all "lilywhite" because he handled it very poorly IMO.

 

I agree, but that said professional athletes about to represent their country should have some self-respect and know how to prepare and behave.

 

I have no time for McNamara as a coach, but I think Hock was lucky to get a phone call.   If it had been me I'd have checked him out of the hotel while he was still asleep and left him a note telling him to pack his bags and feck off.

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What I can't understand is why the team can't have a couple of bottles and watch a film together in the hotel a couple of times a week.

 

Do you think Jessica Ennis had a couple of bottles of beer, sleeps in and misses training two days before the Olympics?

 

I'm more than happy for the players to get screamingly drunk if they want.  At the right time.   But they have a job to do first.  It's basic professionalism and having respect for yourself and your teammates.

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Do you think Jessica Ennis had a couple of bottles of beer, sleeps in and misses training two days before the Olympics?

 

 

No, she usually trains too hard, breaks some bone and misses the games altogether.

 

3 bottles of Becks two days before a game never hurt any professional athlete.

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It surely can't be that hard to not drink for six weeks. I agree with you, if he isn't willing to make the sacrifice he doesn't deserve a spot in the squad.

 

He wouldn't even have had to wait for six weeks. The players had agreed not to drink until after the game against Aus. He didn't have long to wait.

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3 bottles of Becks two days before a game never hurt any professional athlete.

 

Unless they get hit with them...

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There are at least 2 issues here,

Hock has to understand he broke the rules and only has himself to blame. He has to live with the consequences.

 

There are questions about the man management and how the outcomes have been dealt with.Was Hock dealt with fairly and equally to say Hardaker?

 

In truth we don't know much detail about the two issues, although Hock made some comments about his...

Hock made the observation that he and the other players involved had only a "few" drinks. Now, if he can't get up on time after a "few " drinks  during a World Cup, or even during a regular season,  then he needs to consider not drinking at all. Lightwieght!  :sleep: 

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Fantastic comments from supporters who must be amongst the very few who can last 40 minutes without alcohol passing their lips.

The Australians managed to have a night out drinking alcohol later in the world cup process than England did.

Why the preferential treatment and comments when Hardaker left the camp?

Disgraceful victimization.

If it was for drinking,why were others not thrown to the wolves?

The secret to ending 3rd in a 3 horse race - don't select your best pick someone who wasn't even in the squad.

Only in England...

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If it was for drinking,why were others not thrown to the wolves?

It wasn't for drinking, it was for not turning up to training. The other players who had been drinking and turned up to training were dropped for the Australia match.

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Fantastic comments from supporters who must be amongst the very few who can last 40 minutes without alcohol passing their lips.

 

 

 

You might want to read your own post signature mate.  It has a lot of truth in it.

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I'd have got a few Burgesses to tell him.

It's news. Let's not knock it. All publicity...

Interesting to reflect on this the day after KP was "retired" from playing for England. To what extent should allowances be made for potential game changers in a wider group? To end up losing 3 potentially significant squad members and going into the most important game of the decade minus one of our best players suggests to me a failure of man management on McNamara's part. Combined with a total lack of professionalism on the part of the players involved.

Reading about Wigan in the late 80s/early 90s, lots of those players were awkward and hated each other. The greats were given far greater leaway than some might consider healthy. The result was the greatest team our game ever saw in the open era. You don't pick Hock without a tailored strategy for dealing with him and considering how the group will blend. Picking him and then failing to deal with him results in the worst of all worlds.

 

I'd have got a few Burgesses to tell him.

It's news. Let's not knock it. All publicity...

Interesting to reflect on this the day after KP was "retired" from playing for England. To what extent should allowances be made for potential game changers in a wider group? To end up losing 3 potentially significant squad members and going into the most important game of the decade minus one of our best players suggests to me a failure of man management on McNamara's part. Combined with a total lack of professionalism on the part of the players involved.

Reading about Wigan in the late 80s/early 90s, lots of those players were awkward and hated each other. The greats were given far greater leaway than some might consider healthy. The result was the greatest team our game ever saw in the open era. You don't pick Hock without a tailored strategy for dealing with him and considering how the group will blend. Picking him and then failing to deal with him results in the worst of all worlds.

Sometimes there just isn't much you can do!

 

Noble had issues on tour just after we had beaten Australia in Sydney with Long and Gleeson.

Tony Smith had issues in the 2008 WC with Saints and Leeds players acting like kids apparently.

McNamara had issues with the 2013 WC squad.

 

Considering Noble was a former international coach, you think he may have had a bit more support for McNamara, but it is clear the Salford players are following their owner's approach with their disdain for the RFL - Chase and Hock have both shown a complete lack of respect for England RL.

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No, she usually trains too hard, breaks some bone and misses the games altogether.

 

3 bottles of Becks two days before a game never hurt any professional athlete.

I agree with you, it isn't necessarily required to have a total ban, and I don't believe that was the case. If the management however decide that is what they want, then people need to stick to it.

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I agree with you, it isn't necessarily required to have a total ban, and I don't believe that was the case. If the management however decide that is what they want, then people need to stick to it.

Indeed, getting too drunk to get up in the morning in your per-tournement training camp is far less required.  Hock's lack of self-awareness is remarkable.

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What I can't understand is why the team can't have a couple of bottles and watch a film together in the hotel a couple of times a week.

That's fine and later on the coach had that but at that point he asked the players not to.

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“While Steve McNamara is still there I do not want to be part of the England team. I would not play for him again. I still think it was harsh what happened to me in the World Cup and I don’t think I deserved to be kicked out like that. I will always think that.

“We should not have gone out drinking but it wasn’t me on my own. There were others and I didn’t do anything bad. I’d put a lot of hard work in to get into the England team but the way he handled it made me look really bad."

Is he really that thick?

"It wasn't me on my own."

Err... yes it was. You are the only one that went out drinking AND didn't turn up to training.

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“While Steve McNamara is still there I do not want to be part of the England team. I would not play for him again. I still think it was harsh what happened to me in the World Cup and I don’t think I deserved to be kicked out like that. I will always think that.

“We should not have gone out drinking but it wasn’t me on my own. There were others and I didn’t do anything bad. I’d put a lot of hard work in to get into the England team but the way he handled it made me look really bad."

Is he really that thick?

"It wasn't me on my own."

Err... yes it was. You are the only one that went out drinking AND didn't turn up to training.

Yes, he must be that thick. Nice of Hock to say that whilst McNamara is in charge he won't be playing for England again. He's absolutely right because McNamara won't be picking him again. I'm waiting for Koukash to make a comment when Hock does something stupid at Salford, which he will.

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I agree with you, it isn't necessarily required to have a total ban, and I don't believe that was the case. If the management however decide that is what they want, then people need to stick to it.

According to McNamara, the players themselves had agreed the rules for the camp and if that was the case then it is even more incredible that Hock is still trying to justify his behaviour.  If you can't buy into your own rules then why bother?  And surely he wasn't simply disrespecting the coach but also his team mates by breaking the rules they had agreed between themselves?

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You can almost hear the mechanics in Hock's tiny little brain groaning as he thinks of a way to make his own complete balls up not be his fault.  And so much for humility or, God forbid, contrition.

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And all this say it to my face rubbish.

 

Like the f*cking playground.

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