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roughyedspud

Roughyeds fans trust

   29 members have voted

  1. 1. would you become a member

    • yes
      21
    • no
      8

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238 posts in this topic

Thanks for that Geoff,, very imformative piece that. As for fueding factions i was actually referring to the fans, some of which are pro CH, some vehemently anti CH etc, in no way was it suggesting that the RO and Orsa associations had any disputes or anything of that ilk. Just as a point i actually support Saddleworth in the amateur game, i just wondered why i would be tempted to join RO if nothing is actually happening for ORLFC itself which is obviously my first love? I do understand from reading your website it must be frustrating to keep hitting brick walls, but for my membership fee or support i dont see anything happening to the club. I do admire the way you do promote and maintain such support for RO but is it actually a trust for ORLFC? Thanks for taking the time to post.All the best

 

In the first instance Rugby Oldham put money directly into the club in the form of sponsorship. We began by sponsoring players who had been brought through the Oldham Amateur League and later sponsored the Reserve team. However, when it became clear ORLFC were acquiring a ground in Oldham we committed to helping with ground development. We met with CH and he was happy with this. We are still sitting on money available for this purpose but cannot release this without contracts being signed and planning permission being granted.  

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That was my understanding of supporters direct too, therefore i dont see how RO fit that criteria with there mission statement. Not that i am demeaning or criticising what RO do, and for the record i do think it is a well run and supported organisation, just dont see any benefit to the "club" as stated in there constitution as ORLFC (1997)LTD. Thats why it confuses me. Also if this is the supporters direct aims "We promote the value of supporter community ownership at sports clubs, and aim to create the conditions in which supporters can secure greater influence and ownership at their clubs."  then its my understanding that RO who have stated they dont want ownership of the club are breaching this ethos and therefore cannot be a "Supporters trust" in the way Supporters Direct are supposed to work? I still dont get it lol

 

 

"..aim to create the conditions in which supporters can secure greater influence and ownership at their clubs". Do you think those conditions exist at ORLFC? 

 

Supporters Direct are well aware of the situation at ORLFC.

 

The problem with the postings is that the owner has to be willing to talk to and negotiate with interested parties. There is no indication so far that any poster has spoken to CH as we have.

 

There are good ideas floating around here so speak with the only person who can take things forward, let us know what happens and we will see if RO can help.

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Thanks Geoff, that makes it a lot clearer, just as an aside if CH would deal with you would RO help with planning costs or just the structures etc? Thanks for taking the time to tell us the trusts stance too.

 

So ultimately it seems to be back to square one, if RO are obviously willing to help with the ground etc, just why is CH not interested in help after the "im willing to talk to people" speech that seems to be wheeled out at every opportunity. Seems to me that the person who needs to answer questions is one CH. I wont hold my breath for that though :)

I would like to say that for once this thread has and is a pleasure to contibute to with level and sensible postings not degenerating into a slanging match.Good effort folks long may it continue

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The mid 80`s ORLFC Team left an Indelible mark in my Life, such a great pleasure to be a part of the Watersheddings Faithful home and away with my Dad, two of my sisters and my girlfriend...I would dearly love to see even the smallest "Green Shoots" of recovery, and at least more effort to cover the faithful remnant at Whitebank (who like myself are "Getting on!"). 

Im really as vexed at the RFL as they cut central funding only a few years back, and now Superleague are getting an even bigger slice of the pie to line players bottomless pockets,(like the majority of professional sports these days). 

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Is there any way of forcing CH's hand one way or another? Would be nice to know if this idea has any chance before the masses throw some weight behind it. Would RO throw their full weight behind a takeover if CH said he would be willing to relinquish shares/ownership to a supporters trust? A trust/fan ownership of orlfc would immediately see attendances double imo. The potential is huge.

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Great idea but can you see a lot of people signing up to own 25% of a club that is reputed to be around 200k in debt, I imagine most of this debt is down to directors loans, CH insists that he wants the best for the club so why when somebody like Marwan Koukcash came along would he not be realistic with his valuation of the club. The only way forward is for CH to wipe out the loan and let somebody else take over be it in the form of a trust or individuals.

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To be fair Cluedo there is also the grey area over the BQ/CH stuff too, who took loans or didnt? Why is the club allegedly in 200k debt? Plus the Kashcow issue was all dependent on Latics and Corney didnt want to know, i dont think CH can be blamed for that in any way, plus i woudnt trust Koucash to be honest, im not convinced where his motives lie, Oldham then Swinton? Both deals seem dead, a quick fix like that is not the answer imho, its more about rebuilding the trust and support of ORLFC fans and making sure the club has a future long term. What would happen if a money man came in and then pulled the plug? A trust is the way forward, wether or not parties will ever do business/see eye to eye is another matter. At least a trust would/will hopefully secure the famous name of ORLFC.

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In a ideal world a trust would be great but there are not many sporting clubs competing at a high level run by one, sad fact today is you need major investors to be successful, not sure of the current players wages but it used to be £100 appearance money £100 home win £150 away win add on coaches wages plus guaranteed contract payments you would need approx 125k then you have all the other factors travel insurance, employer contributions N.I. Etc you are looking at around 200k if you managed to get 500 people to put £20 a month in this would only raise 120k where is the rest coming from.

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sponsorship,advertising,tv money,additional gate revenue.....membership money would never be the clubs only source of income..


with 500+ members we could quite easily become one of the strongest,financially,outside of super league

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and theres loads of sports clubs that operate at or above the level of the top championship clubs...even super league clubs....

then of course theres barcalona & real madrid who are owned buy the fans

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Real Madrid are owned by the fans yet have the luxury of Juan Carlos writing a large cheque every year, you are also talking global brands, which clubs in SL are run by trusts ? And in all seriousness how much sponsorship do you think you could raise per anum, gate revenue if you give away season tickets to those in the trust would amount to around 75k. I doubt at this moment in time with CH involved you could get 250 members at £20 per month, going back again when we played at BP the 3 main sponsors used to pay around 15k between them, two of these sponsors would never put another penny in whilst CH is involved.

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and thats why everyone has to call a truce.

theres a greater cause in all this,OLRFC,not personal hatred

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Dont really think its about a truce Spud, its more about if these offers etc are available, why is CH hamstringing the club? The only answers now must come from CH, we could go on and on with the whys and wherefores but most of the questions have been answered except the truth from CH.In my opinion the ball is firmly in his court now to respond to why these offers etc have been rejected and what is really happening with ORLFC, it may open wounds like telling us what happened with BQ etc but it needs answers, only then can the club move forward with the truth open to all and then people can make decisions based on the whole picture.

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Real Madrid are owned by the fans yet have the luxury of Juan Carlos writing a large cheque every year, you are also talking global brands, which clubs in SL are run by trusts ? 

 

no super league club is...i never said there was

 

im talking lower league football clubs...like exeter,wycombe & recently portsmouth which have attendances,turnover,etc roughly similar to our top championship clubs and lower super league clubs..

 

so to say a trust that size would'nt work or achieve anything is pure nonsense....sure in football they aren't gonna be winning the premiership...but in rugby league a similar scenario would see us with enough financial strength* we'd be up towards the top of the championship challenging for that stupid 3x8 thing

 

 

*after we'd got the ground upto scratch 

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I suggest you read your previous posts where you put even super league clubs, that is why I asked because I was not aware of any, great idea but sadly I think that is what it will stay as, you have no chance of CH handing over any of the club unless you have a large amount of money to put on the table, in all seriousness would you invest in a loss making company

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and theres loads of sports clubs that operate at or above the level of the top championship clubs...even super league clubs..

what i said is fairly clear...there are sports clubs that operate at or above the level of the top championship clubs and even super league clubs...

you appear to have misunderstood what i wrote

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Rugby Oldham was not formed to take over Oldham Rugby League Club (1997 ) Ltd It was to support Rugby in Oldham in general and it does an excellent job in that respect.

 

The problem with the club and the one common denominator in that respect is CH.

 

How many people have tried to work with him. Melvyn Lord, Stuart Hardacre, Bill Quin and SW ( is he still a director)

 

The debts are around 200k but of what do they comprise of?  Are they directors loans, trade debts or debts owed to HMRC.

 

Unless CH is more open about these debts how or why should anyone invest in the club or would CH even allow them to.

 

The club as to be kept going , as we could go the same way as Blackpool who folded with debts and the RFL would not give permission for a new club unless the debts were paid off.

 

Why should any investor in any business pay off the previous owners debts.

 

As for Whitebank it will take a lot of money to get it up to a decent standard.

 

The club is owned by one person who is the majority if not the sole shareholder. If a lease as been signed for Whitebank it will be that person who has signed it being the only person with responsibility to do it.

 

As it is a Private Limited company it is up to the shareholders to provide the money to run the club. Anyone else investing money into it would only increase the clubs liabilities unless they gave the club the money as a gift. 

 

The future of the club is down to the will of CH and until more information is forthcoming I cannot see anything changing in the future.

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Roughyedspud, sorry I must admit I was flicking through pretty late and pretty fast, it wasn't long ago there was a group of people willing to put money in to ORLFC, this was just after BQ departure, again they got nowhere with CH when asking to see accounts, the problem at the end of the day is that as well as being CH club it also provides him with a job, to progress the club he would have to relinquish both! CH is quite happy being the chairman of a club not going anywhere, this might upset a few posters on here but the club will again fail to get promotion this year, meaning no outlay on whitebank, meaning no upgrade of the playing staff. CH tells the chron every year he would welcome help or investors why then when there has been chances nothing changes.

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Rugby Oldham was not formed to take over Oldham Rugby League Club (1997 ) Ltd It was to support Rugby in Oldham in general and it does an excellent job in that respect..

thats almost as big a issue as what CH is doing with the club...

as good as RO is....what they've done,whether they've realised it or not,is tied up all the resources available for someone,like me,to start a trust with the aim of take part or full ownership of the club...that should have been RO objective from day 1

thats the "head in hands" thing about RO,as ive said before,they have the structure,membership base & backing from supporters direct to actually force CH hand....

they just don't want too.

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As it is a Private Limited company it is up to the shareholders to provide the money to run the club. Anyone else investing money into it would only increase the clubs liabilities unless they gave the club the money as a gift.

right..just thinking outloud now...

so CH gifts the trust 25%

the trusts responsiblities for that 25% is whitebank.

could that work?

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"but the club will again fail to get promotion this year" have you a crystal ball Cluedo lol, if so please cani have the lottery numbers ;)

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If CH gifts the club 25% of the shares to any other person or persons they would be responsible for 25% of the debts.

 

But they would have no say in appointing directors to run the club as CH would still be the majority shareholder and can vote anyway he likes.

 

Until 51% of the shares are owned by someone or some others CH will always be in control.

 

Others both individually and collectively have held more than 50% of the shares in the past, put money in and trustingly left the running of the club to CH

but left for whatever reason. 

 

If people are not happy with the way CH is running the club then they need to get the majority of shares and vote him out.

 

The question is would he allow this to happen.

 

Look into the past for the answers.

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