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walter sobchak

Ukraine

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Was there any need to make this debate personal?  2 posts deleted, one containing the personal stuff, one quoting it.

 

Be civil or you run the minimum risk of your post being deleted and an increasing risk of getting suspended or banned.

Sorry about that, but I saw his public profile picture proclaimed his affiliation to a particular group and I assumed stating information another user publicly posts about himself on the board was kosher. Anyway, you are right about me playing the man not the ball, so I shall not do that anymore.

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BhPEJECIIAAGFTE.png

 

 

Taken from the Middle Class Right-Ons' preferred source of bleeding heart socialism:

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/15/sheffield-page-hall-roma-slovakia-immigration

 

'Nobody knows for sure how many Roma people have come to Sheffield since Slovakia joined the EU in 2004. The council's best guess is that 1,500 eastern European Roma children now live in the city as a whole, with around 500 in the small Page Hall area. Miroslav Sandor, a Roma community worker in Page Hall, gives a much higher estimate. He thinks there may be 600-900 large families in the city, mostly concentrated in Page Hall. A good proportion of them come from Sandor's own home village of Bystrany in south-eastern Slovakia, and the nearby hamlets of Žehra and Letanovce. Though the migrants come and go, the flow is predominantly in one direction. Three buses run by Interbus make the 30-hour journey overland from Slovakia to Sheffield each week but just two go back in the other direction.'

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 about 1% of Ukraine's population has participated in these protests. 

 

I'll accept your figure of 1% for the purposes of this discussion.

 

Which is, I suspect a much larger % than those who sit in the "democratic" parliament.

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Taken from the Middle Class Right-Ons' preferred source of bleeding heart socialism:

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/15/sheffield-page-hall-roma-slovakia-immigration

 

'Nobody knows for sure how many Roma people have come to Sheffield since Slovakia joined the EU in 2004. The council's best guess is that 1,500 eastern European Roma children now live in the city as a whole, with around 500 in the small Page Hall area. Miroslav Sandor, a Roma community worker in Page Hall, gives a much higher estimate. He thinks there may be 600-900 large families in the city, mostly concentrated in Page Hall. A good proportion of them come from Sandor's own home village of Bystrany in south-eastern Slovakia, and the nearby hamlets of Žehra and Letanovce. Though the migrants come and go, the flow is predominantly in one direction. Three buses run by Interbus make the 30-hour journey overland from Slovakia to Sheffield each week but just two go back in the other direction.'

Surely you are able to differentiate between the Roma and the Romanians, right?

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I'll accept your figure of 1% for the purposes of this discussion.

 

Which is, I suspect a much larger % than those who sit in the "democratic" parliament.

Those who sit in the parliament have a mandate from the general population to do so, expressed by the popular vote. Yanukovich got 12.48 million votes in the presidential elections.

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How do you know they're "unrepresentative"? How do you know they're "thugs"?  Can you even begin to conceive that they might be ordinairy people who have seen through the huge con trick that parliamentary "democracy" actually is?

 

How do you know they are? 

 

How do you know they aren't

 

No, because it would be incorrect

 

You appear to believe in the violent overthrow of existing institutions by anyone who fancies a go -  枪杆子里面出政权 -

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How do you know they are? 

 

How do you know they aren't

 

No, because it would be incorrect

 

You appear to believe in the violent overthrow of existing institutions by anyone who fancies a go -  枪杆子里面出政权 -

 

 

Actually no, not by "anyone who fancies a go" but by the working class

 

are you going to answer my questions or dodge them in true "democratic parliamentarian" style?

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Actually no, not by "anyone who fancies a go" but by the working class

 

are you going to answer my questions or dodge them in true "democratic parliamentarian" style?

The working class is not a united front. Some have certain political views some have completely different political views. 

So, in your opinion, if the UKIP got some working class people to take over the Westminster Palace and replace the Prime Minister and maybe take over the Queen's estates too and kick her out that would be democratic? 

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Surely you are able to differentiate between the Roma and the Romanians, right?

 

 

Of course I do.

 

The article was posted to illustrate:

- nobody knows the actual numbers of immigrants that are present in this country. The only thing we do know is that the government is lying and making out it's fewer than is being alleged.

 - the type of immigrant may not be of benefit to the economy or the community.

 

I have no wish to denigrate the Ukrainians; Bradford has a strong tradition of accepting Ukrainian refugees and the Ukrainian Club is only a mile or so from my home. I've been to a couple of do's there. However, if the positions were reversed, we couldn't guarantee that all our migrants would be top-class job candidates, or even job-candidates at all. The chance of any of our imigrants speaking Ukrainian would be zilch.

 

Bradford also has a large Polish community. For many years there was, and presumably still is,  a community-organised private bus service to and from Poland. Who knows whether the same people are coming back that left or whether visitors are coming to visit or to work?

 

The Right-On Brigade Yesterday:

 

stock-vector-illustration-ostrich-runs-c

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Incidentally, My Great Grandfather went to work in Russia in the 1800's. he was part of a large crew that went from Blaenavon to set up an ironworks in Russia. He was gone for several years because the Russians wouldn't let them return home.

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Actually no, not by "anyone who fancies a go" but by the working class

 

are you going to answer my questions or dodge them in true "democratic parliamentarian" style?

 

 

 Just to be clear, you believe in the violent overthrow of existing institutions by the working class.

 

1. Which institutions?

2. What do you mean by working class?

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At one time, it was all ours.

:tongue:

 

As my lecturer once said, "It's been pretty much constant retreat for the Celts for about 2,000 years ..."

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As my lecturer once said, "It's been pretty much constant retreat for the Celts for about 2,000 years ..."

 

Did you only have the one?

 

It figures.

;)

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Did you only have the one?

 

It figures.

;)

 

Just the one on Celtic history.

 

It's a small topic that ends in 1281 after all.

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 Just to be clear, you believe in the violent overthrow of existing institutions by the working class.

 

1. Which institutions?

2. What do you mean by working class?

 

 

Correct and well stated, I believe in the otherthrow (peacefully if possible, violently if not) of the state by the working class.

 

By the state I mean  parliament ,  the ministeries and all the paraphanalia (sp?) of capitalist rule.

 

although I'm not a Marxist, for the purposes of this discussion his analysis of what constitutes the proletariat will suffice.

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Just the one on Celtic history.

 

It's a small topic that ends in 1281 after all.

 

I think you'll find that it will still be continuing on 9th March at Twickenham.

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I think you'll find that it will still be continuing on 9th March at Twickenham.

 

English speakers ruled by England playing an English game in England?

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Correct and well stated, I believe in the otherthrow (peacefully if possible, violently if not) of the state by the working class.

 

By the state I mean  parliament ,  the ministeries and all the paraphanalia (sp?) of capitalist rule.

 

although I'm not a Marxist, for the purposes of this discussion his analysis of what constitutes the proletariat will suffice.

But...why?

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But...why?

 

 

Errrr... to build a new fairer world? how utopian of me to imagine that somehow, someday, things could be fairer and better. that everyone could be fed, that everyone has the opportunity to live a full life.

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You don't have a monopoly on that.

 

In any case, where your approach has been tried it has failed.   

 

What active steps are you taking to get your way?

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Errrr... to build a new fairer world? how utopian of me to imagine that somehow, someday, things could be fairer and better. that everyone could be fed, that everyone has the opportunity to live a full life.

What would be the governing system of this new world (post peaceful/violent takeover by the working class)?

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Worse than the current system, that;s for sure. 

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