Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

richie keay

Eyesore In The Corner

47 posts in this topic

This covenant thing has always baffled me. How did SJ obtain the sole rights for alcohol sale in CP in the first place? A little deal he struck with himself when he was "running" the club (into the ground) back in the 80s?

 

These Johns(t)on's certainly like to have their little hand grenades to lob back over their shoulders when they flounce off, don't they?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the club had the right of way at one point does that mean we own(ed) the peice of land under there. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the club had the right of way at one point does that mean we own(ed) the peice of land under there. 

 

The club and the ground were owned by Barrow Rugby at one point many years ago but Steve Johnston stepped in at a time when the club was again  in financial desperation and pulled them out of the mire by buying the club at an agreed fee.  I believe the right of way was kept as it was required as a fire exist due to the lack of a gate in that corner. The new entrance and gate means that the right of way is no longer justified. The covenant was created (as I am led to believe) to protect the alcohol selling rights of the night club and remains in place until either the owner relinquishes the legal covenant or the building is demolished.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cant we just get a articulated lorry to "accidently" back into the building, It would have to be demolished then!  ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feal it's a legal minefield, as the covenant is in place and the person/people who have it are getting a return on it ie Payment from Barrow RL for the use of the bar along side the snack bar on the popular side then they can keep it in place as long as they wish. If instead of building the bar next to the snack bar the Raiders bar was extended in size and the point of selling alcohol did not change (the bar area in the raiders bar) or stayed within the perimeter of the original building then there would be no problem as permission to sell alcohol from this area has been agreed with both parties at no cost . This is what I have been led to believe if I have it wrong then I apologise in advance. But I am sure if the old club was to be demolished tomorrow the covenant will still stand as the holder/holders are getting a return on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the covenant still still stands why can't the building be demolished then, surely the most important thing for Barrow RLat this most in time is the health and safety of the public/ officials/players on match days. Imagine a scenario where the Duke Street entrance and the area up to the grandstand had to be closed due to the building being unsafe, we wouldn't be able to play at Craven Park because the emergency services wouldn't be able to get in! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't see any reason why the remains of the club can't be demolished and removed, that would have to be negotiated between the BoD and the club owners. The emergency services always used the hindpool entrance before the roundabout was put just outside the entrance. It was then thought safer to use the Duke St end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not being funny but why would the club owner have to negotiate with the BoD to demolish his own building? The sooner the better for me as it's an embarrassment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My understanding is that if the building is removed then the license for that premises is also removed and then the covenant has no legal standing but the owner of the club could apply for planing to re build the club beforehand and once planning is there and the license then the covenant remains. The BOD negotiated the deal with the owner which now sets an annual income for the owner which now also complicates the matter. ( the deal was done whilst i was financial officer but carried out in my absence). The future of the old club and the covenant lies with the owner of the club.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This covenant thing has always baffled me. How did SJ obtain the sole rights for alcohol sale in CP in the first place? A little deal he struck with himself when he was "running" the club (into the ground) back in the 80s?

 

These Johns(t)on's certainly like to have their little hand grenades to lob back over their shoulders when they flounce off, don't they?

Maybe johnson lost the covenant in one of the many burglaries or fires he always suffered annually when it was accounts season?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feal it's a legal minefield, as the covenant is in place and the person/people who have it are getting a return on it ie Payment from Barrow RL for the use of the bar along side the snack bar on the popular side then they can keep it in place as long as they wish. If instead of building the bar next to the snack bar the Raiders bar was extended in size and the point of selling alcohol did not change (the bar area in the raiders bar) or stayed within the perimeter of the original building then there would be no problem as permission to sell alcohol from this area has been agreed with both parties at no cost . This is what I have been led to believe if I have it wrong then I apologise in advance. But I am sure if the old club was to be demolished tomorrow the covenant will still stand as the holder/holders are getting a return on it.

Could the bar be improved this way to increase the service and revenue without breaking any existing legal agreements?

 

Should we have bought the Kill One when it was on offer & have that as the club house, would this have saved the club 5K per season? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Surely someone could threaten the Council due to its inactivity to protect the public and force the issue of removing this H & S Issue with the building or anyone who gets free legal aid to bring a lengthy expensive law suit against johnson that would cost him a fortune to fight due to his neglect of duty (re) this dangerous building, As long as it doesn't harm the club obviously, where theres a will etc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could the bar be improved this way to increase the service and revenue without breaking any existing legal agreements?

 

Should we have bought the Kill One when it was on offer & have that as the club house, would this have saved the club 5K per season?

extending the Raiders bar area has been looked at but finances would not allow it, in my opinion it would have been better extending the Raiders bar with a window to sell beer to supporters on the terraces!

But the new bar was built before the present BoD were elected.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

extending the Raiders bar area has been looked at but finances would not allow it, in my opinion it would have been better extending the Raiders bar with a window to sell beer to supporters on the terraces!

But the new bar was built before the present BoD were elected.

 

The deal for selling alcohol from the outside bar was carried out by the present BOD. Extending the Raiders Bar requires Planning permission and a further deal/permission from the Covenant owner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could the bar be improved this way to increase the service and revenue without breaking any existing legal agreements?

 

Should we have bought the Kill One when it was on offer & have that as the club house, would this have saved the club 5K per season? 

 

We need to remember that the club requires £100k before it looks at any further expenditure on assets which would increase its overall debt. This is the only responsible way the club can go forward.  The £100k has been required since the AGM that was held in 2011 and until this money is found the club will struggle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The deal for selling alcohol from the outside bar was carried out by the present BOD. Extending the Raiders Bar requires Planning permission and a further deal/permission from the Covenant owner.

if at the time planning permission was sort for the extension of the raiders bar area instead of the now outside bar it would have cost no more at the time.

Also there is room for a second floor above the Raiders Bar in the future if needed.

To extend the Raiders bar room area dose not need permission from the covenant holder! The only reason the covenant holder would be involved is if the proposal was to move the actual bar area outside the perimeter of the now bar area. The deal for selling alcohol was done in order to keep the outside bar open due to its popularity. The first season (Championship one) it broke even. After promotion to Championship I believe a small profit was achieved, The £100k which was said to be required outside the normal fundraising in 2011 was to ensure a competitive side could be put on the field, this was not achieved due to various reasons at the time.

The BoD have since paid off a considerable amount of the inherited debt and still held a position in Championship which should be applauded. Fund raising is going forward so I am led to believe and big strides have been achieved since 2011, I do not believe the £100k is as urgent as some would believe, if would be wonderfully if the club had it in its coffers but it has not been possible. If you fail to raise the money one way you try another, it may take longer but it is progressing. All that we can do is get behind the BoD and the team and support the club the best we can .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if at the time planning permission was sort for the extension of the raiders bar area instead of the now outside bar it would have cost no more at the time.

Also there is room for a second floor above the Raiders Bar in the future if needed.

To extend the Raiders bar room area dose not need permission from the covenant holder! The only reason the covenant holder would be involved is if the proposal was to move the actual bar area outside the perimeter of the now bar area. The deal for selling alcohol was done in order to keep the outside bar open due to its popularity. The first season (Championship one) it broke even. After promotion to Championship I believe a small profit was achieved, The £100k which was said to be required outside the normal fundraising in 2011 was to ensure a competitive side could be put on the field, this was not achieved due to various reasons at the time.

The BoD have since paid off a considerable amount of the inherited debt and still held a position in Championship which should be applauded. Fund raising is going forward so I am led to believe and big strides have been achieved since 2011, I do not believe the £100k is as urgent as some would believe, if would be wonderfully if the club had it in its coffers but it has not been possible. If you fail to raise the money one way you try another, it may take longer but it is progressing. All that we can do is get behind the BoD and the team and support the club the best we can .

Extending the bar outside its current area breaches the covenant therefore permission is required.

I am unaware how you calculated that the outside bar broke even in the first year as I had difficulty getting people to carry out stock takes and of course the starting point is the cost of the  deal made with the covenant holder (which was into thousands) before any profit could be looked at.

The £100k required in 2011 outside the normal funding was not needed to put a competitive side on the pitch it was to bring the club out of the debt it was in. If you believe that the £100k that was required is now not as urgent then you either haven't read the last 3 years accounts or simply do not understand them. I must remind you that each year since 2011 the club has had to borrow, loan and re mortgage to get through the seasons. I have warned many times of the requirement and already mentioned that the club is currently only £50k better off on the accounts than it was before the current BOD. To round it up if the club closed today and sold the ground there would hardly be enough to pay the debt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Extending the bar outside its current area breaches the covenant therefore permission is required.

I am unaware how you calculated that the outside bar broke even in the first year as I had difficulty getting people to carry out stock takes and of course the starting point is the cost of the  deal made with the covenant holder (which was into thousands) before any profit could be looked at.

The £100k required in 2011 outside the normal funding was not needed to put a competitive side on the pitch it was to bring the club out of the debt it was in. If you believe that the £100k that was required is now not as urgent then you either haven't read the last 3 years accounts or simply do not understand them. I must remind you that each year since 2011 the club has had to borrow, loan and re mortgage to get through the seasons. I have warned many times of the requirement and already mentioned that the club is currently only £50k better off on the accounts than it was before the current BOD. To round it up if the club closed today and sold the ground there would hardly be enough to pay the debt.

considering there has been no AGM, EGM, this year I am wondering how you know so much about the current financial situation?

I think you will find that it was stated that the £100k was to help keep a competitive team on the park, I do not disagree that the BoD have borrowed since they took position, but even the government still borrow money even though the deficit is reducing! In the clubs present position I should think it will be a lot cheaper for the club to borrow money now than the extortionate rates of interest that were being charged previously? As I said previously the £100k could not be raised as hoped in the way the club wished it could so you try another way, if it means borrowing monies to pay of existing debts at a MUCH cheaper rate of interest than is in place at the time then the club will pay the debt of faster and save money also through less interest

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Should you be divulging private matters relating to your time on the board on a public forum D11 and atp ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

considering there has been no AGM, EGM, this year I am wondering how you know so much about the current financial situation?

I think you will find that it was stated that the £100k was to help keep a competitive team on the park, I do not disagree that the BoD have borrowed since they took position, but even the government still borrow money even though the deficit is reducing! In the clubs present position I should think it will be a lot cheaper for the club to borrow money now than the extortionate rates of interest that were being charged previously? As I said previously the £100k could not be raised as hoped in the way the club wished it could so you try another way, if it means borrowing monies to pay of existing debts at a MUCH cheaper rate of interest than is in place at the time then the club will pay the debt of faster and save money also through less interest

It was myself and Alan Stoker that raised the point of the £100k required during the 2011 AGM, have a check of the minutes of that meeting and I can categorically tell you I was more concerned at the time  about the future of the club with its outstanding debts rather than a competitive side.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Should you be divulging private matters relating to your time on the board on a public forum D11 and atp ?

 

 

You are correct.

 

Reading the various messages on here from ex BOD members with little understanding reminds me why I left.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



Rugby League World - April 2017

League Express - Mon 10th April 2017