Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

markismith50

Newcastle Falcons RU trying to buy Gateshead Thunder

118 posts in this topic

I don't know if this is the future, but RL/RU tie ups are more like the past.

 

IIRC Wigan dabbled with Orrell??  Wire and Saints were tipped to tie with Sale at one point, certainly Bradford were chasing Wakefield RU, Broncos became Quins, Leicester had a long period of threatening to start and RL team etc etc.

 

No brave new worlds there, one way or another it all fell apart or never got going in the first place. Nothing new as this isn't the first time that it's been floated that Gateshead play at the RU ground, this is the second time. First time round Newcastle were doing well, now they have all on not to become a second tier club never mind back Gateshead all the way to SL.

 

But try to look beyond the hype and what you may find is the serious point that Gateshead's rent money and bar takings just may help "prop" an ailing RU club.

There's always one who just wants to look at the negatives.  Keep it on the narrow topic please.  No wandering off into the vaguest off-topic recesses on this thread.

 

This thread is a very, very rare example of a rugby league community, except for the weird people, united on the positive aspects of a club's link-up with a union club.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would prefer Newcastle to have an additional team....instant derby....

quins got interested in RL when they were relegated....then they seemed to grow as the RL diminished. ...they promised player swops etc....

at leeds the tykes (I know) are very much the junior club even being told to play matches at hunslet? If the rhinos started going backwards then investment would be pulled back to their core business which is RL...

all in all Gateshead have stabilised at their level and now need to organically grow at their own pace....

there is nothing stopping Newcastle forming another semi pro team to enter champ1.....

More teams at all levels will help grow the game up there....not pushing out established locals probably pushing them into semi pro union!

Newcastle and Gateshead are too close (arguably the same city really) to have two sides. If they had been rugby league cities from the beginning then a Hull KR and Hull FC situation would be sustainable but that's not the case. No point in having two sides that will never get anywhere rather than one that might.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

can you imagine a time when most rugby league/union clubs are just ' rugby' clubs? league in summer, union in winter. they could share facilities, players, fans, income. I believe this could be the way forward for rugby(both codes).

Well there are three codes of cricket under one umbrella....Test match, one day and twenty-twenty. With clubs playing all three disciplines. Wonder if clubs from both codes will move in that direction moving forward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the general feeling is this is a good move, but I don't think all of the Gateshead hardcore necessarily feel the same. Some decent points made by a Gateshead fan on another forum:

 

1.What happened to the 'vision' of a community club we were sold when the club last phoenixed?

2.Why did the club management feel the need to keep this a secret until the EGM? - So the fans could be railroaded on the night perhaps?

3.Who will Christie be representing at this EGM - Keith Christie Club Director, Keith Christie Shareholder or Keith Christie Employee of the Falcons - too many hats to be objective me thinks?

4.Taking the club out of Gateshead permanently - how long until the Gateshead name goes - it certainly wont be my home town club any more!

5.All these questions and more probably wont be answered as the Malleable Thunder Storm but will just tip their hats and 'yes sir mr keith whatever you thinks is best' will no doubt be the outcome.

 

The EGM thing struck me yesterday. Announcing one at short notice and presumably only planning on breaking the news on the night and then asking them to vote immediately. That's not good.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is underhanded by management, especially if they played the community card in the past.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what are their plans, are they happy for the RL team to be in Champ 1?Are they going to put money into getting them into SL2? Saying that the P&R aspect is what clinches it has to suggest they see Super League as a destination, there already is P&R between the lower two divisions, but then they simultaneously play that down. Do they see this as a way of making money for the Falcons and if so how? Are they going to be called Gateshead Thunder, Newcastle Falcons, Newcastle Thunder etc. If the sale goes through will they move to Kingston Park this season?  Why are they doing it? Covering the bills during the summer doesn't seem that feasible at the moment. Are the RL team going to be fully owned by the Falcons or is it a case of having the same owner, being packaged as the same but in fact being two different entities. If the Falcons do move from Kingston Park & rent somewhere else that can't accommodate another team playing during the summer what do you think might happen - if indeed, there is any likelihood of them moving at all. And, what are the pies like?

 

I guess those are the kinds of questions that will be asked at the meeting tonight. I could speculate, but without knowing all the facts it would be pointless to do so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have an inherent distrust of RU, but even so I still can't see what Newcastle get out of this.

 

Totally agree

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Totally agree

 

It's not difficult - especially if they are going to get a plastic pitch. Currently in the summer, the ground is empty (iirc they have a bit of a fair for the kiddies at some point). Going forward, they will have someone paying to use it and a few extra quid at the bar. The gateshead storm used to play some games just up the road...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't understand why the report in The Journal by Mr Smith has not had any quotes attributed to anyone.

Is there any suggestion that a change of personnel at The Falcons has changed the attitude towards Thunder?

Is the return of Mick Hogan in any way connected?

The Mick Hogan interview with Mr Smith may be revealing - http://www.thejournal.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/mick-hogan-determined-bring-crowds-6528072

 

Perhaps Mr Smith can conduct some interviews with Thunder personnel after the EGM tonight?

 

Looks like a hatchet job more professional than that completed by the RFL in 1999 is on the way.

 

Will Hull KR ride to the rescue...?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know if this is the future, but RL/RU tie ups are more like the past.

 

IIRC Wigan dabbled with Orrell??  Wire and Saints were tipped to tie with Sale at one point, certainly Bradford were chasing Wakefield RU, Broncos became Quins, Leicester had a long period of threatening to start and RL team etc etc.

 

No brave new worlds there, one way or another it all fell apart or never got going in the first place. Nothing new as this isn't the first time that it's been floated that Gateshead play at the RU ground, this is the second time. First time round Newcastle were doing well, now they have all on not to become a second tier club never mind back Gateshead all the way to SL.

 

But try to look beyond the hype and what you may find is the serious point that Gateshead's rent money and bar takings just may help "prop" an ailing RU club.

Wigan bought Orrell, St Helens bought Liverpool-St Helens, Bradford bought Wakefield and Leeds bought Leeds at a time when RL was at a low and RU looked the way forward. Only Leeds sort of worked, Wakefield and Orrell are no more and Liverpool St Helens are something like tier 6. RL has grown a lot from its depths ten years ago but that looked the only way into RU for those clubs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So the Falcons owner is an Arab (possibly a Palestinian one??) and he owns racehorses? Perhaps a certain Uncle Marwan has been bending his ear in the paddock...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"I can't understand why the report in The Journal by Mr Smith has not had any quotes attributed to anyone."

It is quite normal for sources to not want to go on the record. But the info is from very well-placed people, I can assure you. Multiple parties, high up on both sides of the story.

 

"Is there any suggestion that a change of personnel at The Falcons has changed the attitude towards Thunder?"

I suspect it hasn't done any harm, but you'd have to ask them that.

 

"Perhaps Mr Smith can conduct some interviews with Thunder personnel after the EGM tonight?"

I am going to the EGM and will certainly ask if they are prepared to go on the record.

 

"So the Falcons owner is an Arab (possibly a Palestinian one??) and he owns racehorses?"

He was born in Jordan but moved to Northumberland as a youngster and has lived here for most of his life. A Jordanian Geordie, who even has the local accent!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

"So the Falcons owner is an Arab (possibly a Palestinian one??) and he owns racehorses?"

He was born in Jordan but moved to Northumberland as a youngster and has lived here for most of his life. A Jordanian Geordie, who even has the local accent!

 

any idea if he has any connections with Marwan Koukash? Koukash was also born in what was then Jordan (the West Bank) and owns a rugby club (Salford) and owns racehorses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No connection that I know of, although of course it is possible. 

 

Kurdi's horses are more point-to-point and showjumping than racing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's always one who just wants to look at the negatives. 

 

This is what was said:-

 

The Falcons are harbouring no grand ambitions of mounting an instant assault on Super League, but the resumption of promotion and relegation to the code’s top division this year was a key marker in their decision to consider a takeover.Newcastle seeing the move as a means by which to stabilise a Gateshead club which has endured significant off-field turmoil.Rugby league’s summer scheduling would ensure the venue is used for the full year, allowing the Falcons to sweat the asset on ticket sales and bar takings during the fallow months in the union calendar.The chances of  (Gateshead’s return to SL) are not uppermost in the Falcons’ thinking in terms of acquiring the rugby league outfit…

 

I do think it is negative to read far too much into such moves, as it only ends in tears. I'm happy to be positive about it but harbouring ideas of SL when the actual wording dismisses that doesn't help.

 

The positive is the stabilisation of the club, which is a survival issue not an advancement issue. I'd hope the venue would be more attractive than an athletics stadium to spectators so hopefully they would find a bigger audience. In conjunction with an RU club maybe we'll get a few more RU people trying league. And finally I'd hope the deal will reduce Gatesheads costs too. These are my positives and i think they are very real.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not difficult - especially if they are going to get a plastic pitch. Currently in the summer, the ground is empty (iirc they have a bit of a fair for the kiddies at some point). Going forward, they will have someone paying to use it and a few extra quid at the bar. The gateshead storm used to play some games just up the road...

 

It makes no difference to me. They are'nt doing this 'out of the goodness of their heart' and anyone who thinks they are are deluding themselves. I wouldn't trust them to sit the right way round on a chair.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Update on tonight's EGM... I won't be there because the committee don't want me to attend. They've said they will issue a statement afterwards which, of course, is entirely their prerogative, if slightly disappointing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It makes no difference to me. They are'nt doing this 'out of the goodness of their heart' and anyone who thinks they are are deluding themselves. I wouldn't trust them to sit the right way round on a chair.

Nobody has genuinely even suggested that Newcastle are doing the to help out Gateshead. What people have done is talk about the various likely benefits to both Newcastle and Gateshead. Similar comments to yours were made when  Harlequins RU arranged their extremely generous offer to Broncos and gave Quins RL a lot of help and guidance. Given Gateshead's current situation the only obvious downside is if Newcastle go belly-up in two seasons time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's always one who just wants to look at the negatives.  Keep it on the narrow topic please.  No wandering off into the vaguest off-topic recesses on this thread.

 

This thread is a very, very rare example of a rugby league community, except for the weird people, united on the positive aspects of a club's link-up with a union club.

I think it's good. I am happy for any union people to spend money to improve rugby league. If you genuinely think it "weird" that leaguies on a leaguie forum are suspicious of union, then perhaps you should learn more about the history of our great game.

I would similarly welcome Leicester setting up a league team. Wherever they are stronger than us, let's take on the cuckoo role. After all, isn't it the case that many of the expansion amateur clubs have tie ups with union clubs? As PanfaceBurgessgate shows, we just need to be very suspicious indeed of any links higher up.

From my time in the north east, and as a Thunder Storm contributor, anything that makes sense to the heroic pioneers at the Thunder works for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's good. I am happy for any union people to spend money to improve rugby league. If you genuinely think it "weird" that leaguies on a leaguie forum are suspicious of union, then perhaps you should learn more about the history of our great game.

I would similarly welcome Leicester setting up a league team. Wherever they are stronger than us, let's take on the cuckoo role. After all, isn't it the case that many of the expansion amateur clubs have tie ups with union clubs? As PanfaceBurgessgate shows, we just need to be very suspicious indeed of any links higher up.

From my time in the north east, and as a Thunder Storm contributor, anything that makes sense to the heroic pioneers at the Thunder works for me.

I'll go with that.Thunder has been one continuous struggle after the 'First Lady of Rugby League' upped sticks and left overnight after having spent several weeks conning Thunder fans. Anything that gives the chancew of a prosperous future shpould be grabbed with both hands. Even in the SL season there were restrictions on the use of the International Stadium, with us all being bussed up to Heart of Midlothian for a 'home' game against Wigan. Last season they hardly played at home. My vote would be a move to Kingston Park, or look at the 25,000 all seater stadium now owned by Mowden Park.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wigan bought Orrell, St Helens bought Liverpool-St Helens, Bradford bought Wakefield and Leeds bought Leeds at a time when RL was at a low and RU looked the way forward. Only Leeds sort of worked, Wakefield and Orrell are no more and Liverpool St Helens are something like tier 6. RL has grown a lot from its depths ten years ago but that looked the only way into RU for those clubs

True, although in the case of Wigan surely that was  more one man's fantasy of having a top flight FA, RFL, and RFU club operating out of a stadium he also owned?

 

Orrell was always a bit of an odd club though...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Last season they hardly played at home.

In all fairness neither did Gateshead Utd... That was a stadium fabric issue if ever there was one. I reckon Thunder could have been cruising along at the top of the SL and they still wouldn't have been allowed to play there because the pitch was shot to bits. I know you'll know that but for the education of others who might think there was a conspiracy.... United played "home" matches at about five grounds last season I think, including York, Boston, Hartlepool and Middlesbrough alongside the International...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In all fairness neither did Gateshead Utd... That was a stadium fabric issue if ever there was one. I reckon Thunder could have been cruising along at the top of the SL and they still wouldn't have been allowed to play there because the pitch was shot to bits. I know you'll know that but for the education of others who might think there was a conspiracy.... United played "home" matches at about five grounds last season I think, including York, Boston, Hartlepool and Middlesbrough alongside the International...

I did know that. but I'd forgotten. The point that I was making though, was that Thunder have played on different grounds almost every season. Blaydon and Percy Park spring bto mind straightaway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Update on tonight's EGM... I won't be there because the committee don't want me to attend. They've said they will issue a statement afterwards which, of course, is entirely their prerogative, if slightly disappointing.

 

 

More than disappointing - they clearly have something to hide, although you couldn't possibly say that from your position.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



League Express - Mon 10th April 2017

Rugby League World - April 2017