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JM2010

Who should be fullback for England?

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As with every sport,some days it happens yet on others is doesn't.As you say Wellens kept him quiet,could that be due to the extra years of experience Wellens has over Hardaker.I'm sure Wellens was kept quiet by more experienced players in his younger days.

Again, I'm not suggesting that.  But if people want Hardaker as an England fullback based upon his performances so far, which surely that is what they are saying given that is all they have to go on, then it is in games such as Friday night that he should be making a difference.

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That said, Wellens had a superb game - better than he's looked for a while. I'm just glad we're asking "which of these guys should be England FB?" and not "why don't we have an international-class FB?"

 

Looking at it with the glass half full, it's a nice problem to have.

Absolutely.  It makes a refreshing change!

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Again, I'm not suggesting that.  But if people want Hardaker as an England fullback based upon his performances so far, which surely that is what they are saying given that is all they have to go on, then it is in games such as Friday night that he should be making a difference.

A player has an average game and shouldn't be considered for international honours,is that the point you are trying to make,even players like Sam Tomkins etc have underperformed in "big"  games,if we used your criteria no players would ever get selected.

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A player has an average game and shouldn't be considered for international honours,is that the point you are trying to make,even players like Sam Tomkins etc have underperformed in "big" games,if we used your criteria no players would ever get selected.

The point is Terry some who is nothing to do with Leeds that has the best backline in the League.GH said possibly our strongest squad not best backline.so please do not scoff at leeds players when they get beat they did not claim to be best in SL nor did fans or the club.Goodluck to Saints backline Probably the best in sL

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A player has an average game and shouldn't be considered for international honours,is that the point you are trying to make,even players like Sam Tomkins etc have underperformed in "big"  games,if we used your criteria no players would ever get selected.

No.  What I am saying is that it is in games such as the one on Friday night that an (as yet potential) international fullback should be having a good game.  He should rise in the 'big' games.  Whether Hardaker just had a poor game on Friday I couldn't possibly say as I don't watch him often enough in the intense games.  Like everyone on here I only have limited access to players who play for other teams so that is all I can comment on.  Bearing that in mind I would have expected him to 'play up' rather than have a poor game.

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No.  What I am saying is that it is in games such as the one on Friday night that an (as yet potential) international fullback should be having a good game.  He should rise in the 'big' games.  Whether Hardaker just had a poor game on Friday I couldn't possibly say as I don't watch him often enough in the intense games.  Like everyone on here I only have limited access to players who play for other teams so that is all I can comment on.  Bearing that in mind I would have expected him to 'play up' rather than have a poor game.

Ok,how many Saints players have failed to "rise" in big games and had poor games when it matters.As I said these things happen in every sport and to expect players to be on the top of their game for every single game during a season is impossible.

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We are starting to develop some real quality at full back (and on the wing!) in the UK at the moment; it is great to see. The likes of Tomkins, Shaul, Hardaker, and Lomax are really talented players and will ensure competition for the England No1 jersey continues for the long term future. For what it is worth, Tomkins rightly holds the claim to the jersey at the moment but that shouldn't mean it is solely his; in my opinion, Lomax is his biggest rival at present as he brings similar qualities as Tomkins in terms of his ability to play as a third pivot, something which I don't think Hardaker and Shaul are able to do as well. However, the point is, it is great to see competition for places and let's hope it continues throughout the England side and not just at full back.

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Ok,how many Saints players have failed to "rise" in big games and had poor games when it matters.As I said these things happen in every sport and to expect players to be on the top of their game for every single game during a season is impossible.

I'm not talking about Saints players or Leeds players.  This thread is about potential England fullbacks.  I would never expect any player to play at the top of their game every match, although some do, but I would expect a potential international to play at the top of their game when they needed to, such as in an intense game where it was nip and tuck all the way through. 

 

That's all I'm saying on the matter as I feel like I've repeated myself a few times already.

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You obviously haven't understood the point being made to you,never mind.

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If Tomkins/Lomax played fullback should the other play in the halves?

I'd play Lomax at 7.

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I'd play Lomax at 7.

 

Lomax isn't a scrum half... he's a fullback or nothing when it comes to the international game.

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Lomax isn't a scrum half... he's a fullback or nothing when it comes to the international game.

Didn't he start at Saints as a 7?

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There are some very forgiving folk on here. Hardaker had an opportunity in the World Cup that all of us would have dreamed of and threw it away by acting like a complete helmet. For that reason alone I wouldn't let him anywhere near a shirt until he's proved he's got his head screwed on. I rather suspect many of these Leeds fans weren't quite so quick to offer Long or Hock a second chance, and rightly not.

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We could do a lot worse than consider Sam in the halves with Widdop, and Hardaker (or whoever) at 1.

I'd be more than happy with this

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Didn't he start at Saints as a 7?

So have everyman and his dog since Long left.

With the Aussie scrum half being injured at the moment,you'd think that playing Lomax at 7 would be more dangerous than playing Wellens at 7

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Zak Hardaker was nowhere on Friday night.  He was immobilised by Wellens.  If Wellens can keep him quiet, what hope has he against Australia?

 

 

considering wellens was playing scrum half he didn't match up to hardaker at full back

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Wellens didn't really play 7 on Friday.  He played the Wellens position!  Lomax played 7 in attack and 1 in defence.  Lomax, Hohaia and Robes ran the show.

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Didn't he start at Saints as a 7?

Nah.  He started as a 6.  He played 6 during his junior career as well.  He's played a few positions at Saints with varying degrees of success: wing, centre, both halves and fullback.  He was given the 7 role originally in 2011 with Gaskell as we had no halfbacks due to the long term injuries to Eastmond and Pryce at the time.  He then took on the shirt for himself when Eastmond left.  He's very quiet and so has found the organisational side of the game difficult.  His kicking game is also erratic and post 2013, when he struggled with a hamstring injury, he hasn't really featured much in kicking duties.  Whether he could take on a greater role in bossing the team as he grows older/more confident I don't know but he's more of a free spirit on the pitch and that's what he prefers as a player so fwiw I think either 6 or fullback are the ideal roles for him.

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There are some very forgiving folk on here. Hardaker had an opportunity in the World Cup that all of us would have dreamed of and threw it away by acting like a complete helmet. For that reason alone I wouldn't let him anywhere near a shirt until he's proved he's got his head screwed on. I rather suspect many of these Leeds fans weren't quite so quick to offer Long or Hock a second chance, and rightly not.

He's on a final warning,he was ordered to forfeit his holiday and go straight back into training.He does seem to have knuckled down and when all the speculation about his future was going on about wether Leeds would dismiss him there were fans of certain other clubs licking their lips saying "we'll have him" He is still on quite a long contract but I have heard that he stopped talks on a new extension.So there is hope for the circling vultures, but if he doesn't stay it'll be NRL I think.Leeds have sacked good players in the past a GF winner too,but not this time .They were not going to improve another team because of a stupidity of a talented big daft lad

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England weren't far off playing a World cup final. That's an understatement, they couild have rightfully been a serious challenge to the Aussies, in retrospect taking into account the problems the Kiwis made for themselves with their ' recovery' practices I wish England had been there.

 

Based on the last world cup I wouldn't be looking to change much if anything from the World cup semi final team. That would see Widdop retain his starting spot too.

 

The incumbent fullback is having an NRL baptism by fire. If he gets through being targeted in the fashion he has been ( with a lot more targeting to come ) you'd be assured of different Sam Tomkins at the back for England.

 

So give it time , all questions will be answered in the cauldron of the NRL , if Tomkins struggles in the fullback position here , you'd be getting him back in all likelyhood as a number six ( again ). 

 

Tomkins will go head to head with Kevin Locke for the Number one jersey at the Warriors sometime this season. Locke was out of form pre Tomkins arival ( he has a partial ACL tear at the moment ).

 

Most expect Locke will put up a good fight for the Jersey when the time comes. Lockes contract expires this seasons end. 

As in the case of the Enlgand team....Sam Tomkins is never not going to make the starting 13 in either position, he's a good problem to have. 

 

Sam looks better playing up in the Warriors three quarter line than both our halves.

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He's on a final warning,he was ordered to forfeit his holiday and go straight back into training.He does seem to have knuckled down and when all the speculation about his future was going on about wether Leeds would dismiss him there were fans of certain other clubs licking their lips saying "we'll have him" He is still on quite a long contract but I have heard that he stopped talks on a new extension.So there is hope for the circling vultures, but if he doesn't stay it'll be NRL I think.Leeds have sacked good players in the past a GF winner too,but not this time .They were not going to improve another team because of a stupidity of a talented big daft lad

This thread's about England, not Leeds. Obviously Leeds would be daft to get rid.

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This thread's about England, not Leeds. Obviously Leeds would be daft to get rid.

I did state that I think Tomkins right now should be number one fullback and I think Hardaker was punished accordingly he also got a hefty fine and I also think he will be overlooked by England for awhile no matter how well he is playing.I was very angry at the time because all the RL fans did their bit I flew 3400 miles and they couldn't discipline themselves for four weeks.

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What did Hardaker do to have a poor game on Friday, you know, just out of curiosity? He made 144m, didn't miss a tackle, looked dangerous chiming in. Saints took him out of the game on kick returns by kicking dead a lot! If that's what people are on about, really?

 

As for the full back, Tomkins is still the more suited for me but Hardaker isnt far behind him now.

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What did Hardaker do to have a poor game on Friday, you know, just out of curiosity? He made 144m, didn't miss a tackle, looked dangerous chiming in. Saints took him out of the game on kick returns by kicking dead a lot! If that's what people are on about, really?

 

As for the full back, Tomkins is still the more suited for me but Hardaker isnt far behind him now.

Saints didnt kick dead a lot at all. They kicked at Briscoe a lot in the first half and mixed it up more in the second. Hardaker was clearly targeted when he had the ball. He got hammered with a couple of big shots, especially early.

Hardaker is a decent player but he's very one dimensional. Easy to defend for a good defence. Nowhere near Tomkins or Lomax. Miles behind.

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