Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

weloveyouwakefield2

Bradford Appeal..

72 posts in this topic

The points deduction isn't just for going into administration, it's also for how you come out of it.

 

The point deduction they received was for coming out of administration a couple of months ago (which I'm fairly sure they didnt, or if they did it was only for a few hours). Any points deduction should be based on htem coming out with Greene as the owner.

I beg to differ, It's my understanding that 6 points is the punishment for an insolvency event, which Administration is, there is a precedent for that being reduced to 4 points depending on how you come out of it, i.e. paying some or all of the creditors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I beg to differ, It's my understanding that 6 points is the punishment for an insolvency event, which Administration is, there is a precedent for that being reduced to 4 points depending on how you come out of it, i.e. paying some or all of the creditors.

...and losing [over] half your competition money fits into these 'precedents' where, exactly?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...and losing [over] half your competition money fits into these 'precedents' where, exactly?

Into the bit where you're repaying some of the loans and wage bills made to and for you by the RFL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Into the bit where you're repaying some of the loans and wage bills made to and for you by the RFL

Which loan was this? Not the *advance* of the sky money. ...ie not a loan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Into the bit where you're repaying some of the loans and wage bills made to and for you by the RFL

Not that that old myth again. Loan from RFL was repaid in full by sale of odsal lease. Advances to cover wages during first admin were approx 360k iirc (exact amounts documented in administrators report) which were covered by remaining sky payments due to club that year anyway. Sky money deduction was totally unrelated to both issues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course, longer term, if Bradford do get let off some or all of this punishment then another club gets relegated at the end of the season with a small gap between them and Bradford, the possibilities of legal action by that club against their relegation are immense.

 

It should take something really exceptional (as distinct from "it's just not fair") to reverse this punishment otherwise more trouble will be forthcoming for the RFL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course, longer term, if Bradford do get let off some or all of this punishment then another club gets relegated at the end of the season with a small gap between them and Bradford, the possibilities of legal action by that club against their relegation are immense.

 

It should take something really exceptional (as distinct from "it's just not fair") to reverse this punishment otherwise more trouble will be forthcoming for the RFL.

If points are returned to us then the independent legal panel will have judged the the deduction of points, or number of points deducted, was unfair in the first place. Not the other way round.

If there were to be a legal challenge by say Wakefield following their relegation as a result then I'd have thought they would need to successfully prove that either our appeal through the RFL was not due process, or the outcome (assuming points deduction reduction) was an incorrect judgement based on the facts provided and within the terms of reference.

People should understand that this appeal is being heard by an independent legal panel, not big Nige and his mates down the pub. Also, it's not some made up challenge from us that the RFL are reacting to. An appeal is part of SL process and procedure.

And before someone asks, Marc Green is fiunding out of his own pocket.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course, longer term, if Bradford do get let off some or all of this punishment then another club gets relegated at the end of the season with a small gap between them and Bradford, the possibilities of legal action by that club against their relegation are immense.

 

It should take something really exceptional (as distinct from "it's just not fair") to reverse this punishment otherwise more trouble will be forthcoming for the RFL.

Bradford fans should accept the deduction, as other clubs have done....they should go away and re-build in the lower division and allow better managed teams to take their place....then perhaps in two or three years they will be back, well managed and competent

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Into the bit where you're repaying some of the loans and wage bills made to and for you by the RFL

 

Money taken and dished out to the other clubs is the same as paying back debts [which, incidentally didn't exist]. You couldn't make it up....oh hang on..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bradford fans should accept the deduction, as other clubs have done....they should go away and re-build in the lower division and allow better managed teams to take their place....then perhaps in two or three years they will be back, well managed and competent

No other club has ever had a deduction of monies due to insolvency, so maybe you could supply a list?  - every other club has had a points deduction, if anything.

 

The 'logic' of taking money from clubs in financial difficulties still has me scratching my head.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Couple of posts removed.

 

Please stay on topic and leave personal insults out of it.

 

Thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No other club has ever had a deduction of monies due to insolvency, so maybe you could supply a list?  - every other club has had a points deduction, if anything.

 

The 'logic' of taking money from clubs in financial difficulties still has me scratching my head.

Well if its a new company the debts of that company would surely not be held by the new one- So I disagree that money should be taken from the Bulls

 

However in the spirit of fair play,,,I guess a few clubs want their money back.

 

In effect Bradford did not exist, and the points deduction is fair,,,,Any challenges to that will receive a total back lash from people like me

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bradford fans should accept the deduction, as other clubs have done....they should go away and re-build in the lower division and allow better managed teams to take their place....then perhaps in two or three years they will be back, well managed and competent

 

So did Halifax "re-build" and get back in "two or three years" then? It's over 10 years and counting now.

 

Did Widnes "Re-build" in the Championship or HKR or Fartown or Cas "re-build"?? Or Did Messrs O'Connor, Davey, Hudgell and Fulton reach into their own pockets to get these clubs back into Superleague.

 

Nobody has "built" their way out of the Championship, those who have got out have all been gifted money to get out. How do you "build" a professional team, in a semi pro league? or how do you "build" a crowd offering second tier fare and semi pro wages? Building in the championship is a myth.

 

Have you also considered the difference between "managing" a club in a division where the turnover is under a £Million across the board, against "managing" a club where the turnover runs into millions often over £6M at the top clubs.

 

There's no comparison. Do you think swapping the Leigh management for the Bradford management just before the problems began would have seen Bradford thrive and Leigh in the third tier??

 

Top CC teams are "well managed" and bottom SL clubs are "badly managed" is another myth.

 

Bradford's relegation may see the top players leave and the crowds drop further. What a great plan that would be? Sorry for taking a strong opposite view but these myths are bandied about when there is absolutely no evidence for them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd argue that Wakefield built their way out of the NFP or Championship in 1998, they did it with a lot of home produced players and a home produced Coach and no sugar daddy so very little money

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd argue that Wakefield built their way out of the NFP or Championship in 1998, they did it with a lot of home produced players and a home produced Coach and no sugar daddy so very little money

 

Wakefield came top of division 2 in 1998 in front of HKR, Fev and Dewsbury who also did not have a sugar daddy or much money, they got promoted on a two point grand final win.

 

They had "built" their 1,952 fanbase up to only 2,018 by having a good season at semi pro level. Three other clubs had better crowds. As we know Wakefield did OK first season in SL then spent five SL seasons in a row in the bottom four escaping relegation.

 

They were promoted not because they had built up much bigger crowds or put together a quality side, but because they were the best of a number of strugglers in the days when if you came top of a bad bunch you could get promotion.

 

Do you believe if Wakefield go down it will be a good thing? I don't think Mr. Carter thinks so, as if they go down because of any points deduction on Bradford being reinstated, he has threatened to resign rather than take the mythical opportunity to "re-build" and come back stronger than ever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please stay on topic.

 

This thread is about Bradford's appeal against their points deduction.

 

The issue of whether or not a club can rebuild for Super League from relegation to the Championship is a separate subject. Start a new thread to discuss that if you wish. but do not continue it here.

 

Thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wakefield came top of division 2 in 1998 in front of HKR, Fev and Dewsbury who also did not have a sugar daddy or much money, they got promoted on a two point grand final win.

 

They had "built" their 1,952 fanbase up to only 2,018 by having a good season at semi pro level. Three other clubs had better crowds. As we know Wakefield did OK first season in SL then spent five SL seasons in a row in the bottom four escaping relegation.

 

They were promoted not because they had built up much bigger crowds or put together a quality side, but because they were the best of a number of strugglers in the days when if you came top of a bad bunch you could get promotion.

 

Do you believe if Wakefield go down it will be a good thing? I don't think Mr. Carter thinks so, as if they go down because of any points deduction on Bradford being reinstated, he has threatened to resign rather than take the mythical opportunity to "re-build" and come back stronger than ever.

I think you do all of the clubs you just mentioned a huge injustice, most of the season you talk about was full of quality rugby and exciting games. Wakefield were promoted having finished League leaders and Grand a Final winners. The Division they won was the one immediately below the Super League, y'know just like the Championship is today.

I don't think it'll do any team any good whatsoever to get demoted, certainly not Wakefield or Bradford, the only possible club who might MIGHT come back and be better is London but that's based on them being Curlys dog at the moment. The strength of the amateur and community game in London might actually see them rise back up based on home grown players rather than a collection of overseas lads with no affinity to the area.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bradford and Wakefield must be thanking their lucky stars that they played Catalans when they were pants. Or they would be 2 and -4 and it would give London a great shout.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bradford and Wakefield must be thanking their lucky stars that they played Catalans when they were pants. Or they would be 2 and -4 and it would give London a great shout.

Bulls play Catalan in the Cup for the first time this coming Sunday. We play them in the league 24th May. The internet was built for pedantry. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If an *independent* panel ruled that Bradford had been treated excessively harshly and gave them some points back, how does this entitle other clubs to complain about it?

If the appeal is unsuccessful and we go down, so be it. And if it is successful...ditto

It's pretty academic anyway because I can't see them escaping with or without the points

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bulls play Catalan in the Cup for the first time this coming Sunday. We play them in the league 24th May. The internet was built for pedantry. ;)

 

Sorry meant to say Bradford played London in the first few rounds and Wakefield played Catalans. My mistake.

 

I do think the Bulls have another 8-10 points in them. But will that be enough?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry meant to say Bradford played London in the first few rounds and Wakefield played Catalans. My mistake.

 

I do think the Bulls have another 8-10 points in them. But will that be enough?

We don't. It won't.

 

I should add a smiley but I don't have it in me!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



League Express - Mon 10th April 2017

Rugby League World - April 2017