Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

London Drifter

London RL Depth

67 posts in this topic

Conference League South is a very good league if you accept it as a midlands and south west premier. It's however no good at being a south wide league. There's only 2 midlands sides now as Northampton couldn't keep up with the pace. I'm hoping next year a Championship 1 Coventry Bears can field an A team at CLS level. Without the CLS I don't think Nottingham, Leicester, Bristol etc would be able to continue at their current level

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think there seems to be a big problem across the London leagues at the moment with player buy in. I've never known so many clubs who were strong a year or so ago who are now struggling to field teams.

I do think we're really lucky at the Dockers that we have no other RL clubs nearby, in that anyone who is new to the game who lives central, east or in north London will consider us they're nearest club.. That includes people who love in north east Essex too.

The big thing about fielding a number of teams per club is, as has been mentioned, having a decent amount of volunteers and coaches involved at the club who are passionate, patient and prepared to get stuck in.

If every club had half a dozen people like that I reckon most could find a couple of teams to field.

 

Not just East London, Mike, some people south of the river are closest to you now we've moved further south and Greenwich folded.  I reckon it would probably be quicker for a lad living in Lewisham to get to West Ham via public transport than getting out to us by car.

 

Do you think it would have been different had B&D survived and if Enfield had got off the ground?

 

At Beckenham, it was our ambition to run two teams.  However, even with some double-duty, you still need 35 players for a matchday to do that, which we just can't get near with any consistency.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 I'm hoping next year a Championship 1 Coventry Bears can field an A team at CLS level.

Don't want to get too far off topic, but isn't that how it should be, any Midlands or Southern clubs joining the Championship 1 set up should have their A team playing in the Conf League South, not in a local league against fairly newish clubs and players. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Conference League South is a very good league if you accept it as a midlands and south west premier. It's however no good at being a south wide league. There's only 2 midlands sides now as Northampton couldn't keep up with the pace. I'm hoping next year a Championship 1 Coventry Bears can field an A team at CLS level. Without the CLS I don't think Nottingham, Leicester, Bristol etc would be able to continue at their current level

 

This is why when Darren Pugsley was putting forward his optimistic vision for the future at the Season Launch this year (which very few actually came along to), it was suggested that  a "London, South and East Superleague" was really the next natural step above the London Premier.  This would fit with the idea as laid out earlier; probably Chargers, Rhinos, Skolars A, Stags A, Cents, Crusaders, Tigers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think had B+D stuck around certainly the essex contingent would have probably gravitated there, though in all honesty we don't have that many essex based lads playing at the Dockers, but even back then we still consistently drew decent numbers of new players, though back then we didn't have the set up to keep hold of them, now we do. And we're seeing the benefits.

I don't think people take the league seriously enough, which is why some clubs drift in terms of playing staff.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is why when Darren Pugsley was putting forward his optimistic vision for the future at the Season Launch this year (which very few actually came along to), it was suggested that a "London, South and East Superleague" was really the next natural step above the London Premier. This would fit with the idea as laid out earlier; probably Chargers, Rhinos, Skolars A, Stags A, Cents, Crusaders, Tigers.

Medway and Southampton maybe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't want to get too far off topic, but isn't that how it should be, any Midlands or Southern clubs joining the Championship 1 set up should have their A team playing in the Conf League South, not in a local league against fairly newish clubs and players.

Depends what we want the London premier to be. It's not exactly a local league and of the 2 new clubs one shouldn't be there and the other are really good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not just East London, Mike, some people south of the river are closest to you now we've moved further south and Greenwich folded.  I reckon it would probably be quicker for a lad living in Lewisham to get to West Ham via public transport than getting out to us by car.

 

Do you think it would have been different had B&D survived and if Enfield had got off the ground?

 

At Beckenham, it was our ambition to run two teams.  However, even with some double-duty, you still need 35 players for a matchday to do that, which we just can't get near with any consistency.

My thinking is perhaps ultra cautious, but you need 35 players in a squad just to get 17 men out each game.  There will be injuries, work, holidays and just not being that dedicated.  That means to manage two teams, you have to be looking at 70 players.  You will also need adminstrators to ensure things are run well enough, or both teams will be disillusioned.  If that means we have a several players having to make so with social 9's, we will be fine with that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My thinking is perhaps ultra cautious, but you need 35 players in a squad just to get 17 men out each game.  There will be injuries, work, holidays and just not being that dedicated.  That means to manage two teams, you have to be looking at 70 players.  You will also need adminstrators to ensure things are run well enough, or both teams will be disillusioned.  If that means we have a several players having to make so with social 9's, we will be fine with that. 

From my experience 60-70 would be about right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Slightly off topic but Northampton have gone from being unable to raise a team every week in CLS to winning by an average of 70 point margin a week in midlands premier. I wouldn't rule out them looking east

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My thinking is perhaps ultra cautious, but you need 35 players in a squad just to get 17 men out each game.  There will be injuries, work, holidays and just not being that dedicated.  That means to manage two teams, you have to be looking at 70 players.  You will also need adminstrators to ensure things are run well enough, or both teams will be disillusioned.  If that means we have a several players having to make so with social 9's, we will be fine with that. 

 

Absolutely, you need a massive squad to support two teams.  Our problem is consistency.  We have a number of players but, at best, 2/3rds will be available on any given matchday and that's like 1 1/2 squads.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My thinking is perhaps ultra cautious, but you need 35 players in a squad just to get 17 men out each game.

 

From my experience 60-70 would be about right.

 

Absolutely, you need a massive squad to support two teams.  Our problem is consistency.  We have a number of players but, at best, 2/3rds will be available on any given matchday and that's like 1 1/2 squads.

 

So very true.  Was talking to out coach last weekend about this, and he was saying that he has never been able to put out his strongest choice team, or for that matter, the same team, for over two seasons.  We have  about 60 on our books for this season and just had enough for the cup/merit league game this weekend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

However, having 2 teams does mean that you 'should' be able to fulfil your 1st team games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure on the quality of the team Skolars A put out but Wests beating them 38-14 in the cup must really put the cat amongst the pigeons.  Chargers routed the Cents in the other semi-final to set up a Wests/South West London cup final.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure on the quality of the team Skolars A put out but Wests beating them 38-14 in the cup must really put the cat amongst the pigeons.  Chargers routed the Cents in the other semi-final to set up a Wests/South West London cup final.

Maybe this helped Wests Warriors - From the London RFL site -  The core of the side has been built around Matty Ashe, a former Junior Kiwi, while Matty’s younger brother Nathan is one to watch at full-back.

Nathan came to England when he was 17 and was signed by St Helens. He spent three seasons with the club making a total of 10 Super League appearances, the last of which was against London Broncos at The Stoop last April.

 

Who said there was no depth In the London League, we have ex-superleague players in our merit league. ;) 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, my chairman saw the articles and did some digging around and instantly exclaimed "they're a bunch of ringers!"

 

Right now they have good organisation and if they win this bloody thing, I reckon a double promotion is on the cards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Dockers played Wests in a friendly a month or so back, not making excuses, but we had a scratch team out, and they put 50 on us.

An organised side with plenty of lads wanting to play (they probably had over ten subs), and definitely on par with the better teams in division 1, which is really where they should be playing.

Looking forward to them coming to Newham for the return game, as they are a good side.

I fancy SWL to get the win in the cup final though.

Hopefully Wests move up to Div 1 sooner rather than later.

Looking forward to welcoming bbfaz and the Beckenham boys to East London this weekend though!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm looking forward to it too, Mike.  I think this will go some way to deciding who will be the minor premiers this season.

 

Not immediately obvious what structure next year will take.  Looking at the leagues, we have 14 distinct clubs in the London Men's League this season.   If Billericay continue, I assume they'll pushed off to the East region and South London are definitely joining, so we'll net out at 14 plus whomever shows up.

 

Staines are most certainly going to be relegated.  I don't think either of us are yet ready to replace them.  So to get a six-team division, we need Hammersmith to get their act together off the field.   Esher need some serious changes to survive; either fully buying in to being part of Esher RFC and basing the club out of there entirely or leaving Esher to be closer to their training venue and player base.  They're a good bunch but they're struggling.  One of our former players (and yours, Mike) turned out for them at the weekend after one training session.

 

With Staines and Wests, there'd be a reasonable footprint for next season.  Personally, I won't be pushing for promotion, no matter how the season goes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 and South London are definitely joining.

Yes! It's taken a bit of time but Storm are back! We haven't managed to find a game this weekend but we're playing Skolars B next week, and are entered into the Brighton 9s on the 28th. We're also looking for a couple of fixtures in July.

 

Small beginning, but next season we hope to be in the Regional competition again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes! It's taken a bit of time but Storm are back!

It's amazing just how fragile rugby teams/clubs can be.  When I first started to get involved with St Albans, South London Storm were THE club in the south, winning the Harry Jepson Trophy, Southern Premierships,  Grand Finals and all sorts.  They were held up as a none heartlands club that succeeded and should be emulated by other clubs.  Then within a couple of years, things seemed to have gone wrong and the club went into freefall, then 'hibernation', but now they are back and starting all over again and I wish them all the best.  Given the title of this topic and some of the content posted, I think we should all be aware that it doesn't take much to harm any amateur rugby club. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd say that most clubs are still very fragile and, by and large, depend upon the enthusiasm and generosity of a only a small handful of people.

 

For many years Storm were fortunate in that they had a stable base at S-C RFC, and plenty (though still not enough!) of quality volunteers. Sadly, the relationship with the rugby club went sour - problems on both sides, but mainly the RL - and the view that the grass would be greener elsewhere (a curse of London RL - as history seems to show, once a club starts moving around its days are numbered, with pretty much St Albans being the sole exception). Also, no one can keep going on year after year, so there were changes to personnel and, quite honestly, for the most part the replacements weren't a shadow of the originals.

 

I truly believe that Storm can get back up to where we were a number of years ago. Although distinct entities we're now working with Croydon Hurricanes and one ambition is the development of a clubhouse possibly at Lanfranc. The lack of these facilities certainly hampered the development of the Open Age when they originally moved there. The school has given a tentative thumbs up to us having one as part of the school's redevelopment. 

 

Plenty of hard work needed but good things can be achieved.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Be good to have the Storm back Graham. Maybe we could look at a friendly in July some time.. i think we have some free weekends. Drop me an email if your interested and we'll see what we can do. info at newhamdockers.co.uk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That would be great. We'll be in touch. Be fun to play against my lad.

Anyway... today's big news.

Skolars A 80 SOUTH LONDON STORM 22

Humble new beginnings, but the start of something good.

One-sided first 30 (40-0!) but competitive last half.

Huge thanks to Skolars for their hospitality and game at short notice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

22 points against a Premier team is nothing to be sniffed at.  It's a good start, Graeme.

 

EDITED: As per additional info from LondonDrifter.

 

Put together tables at the halfway point of the season.  Unlike the RFL ones, I've factored in walkovers as it's unlikely games that have been walked over will be replayed before the end of the season.

London Men's League Premier Division

Pos Team           P   W   D   L   F    A    PD  Pts
               
1   SWL Chargers   5   5   0   0  203   46  157   10
2   Skolars A      5   4   0   1  149   81   68    8
3   Eastern        5   3   0   2  136  122   14    6
4   Hemel A        5   2   0   3  120  129   -9    4
5   St. Albans     5   1   0   4   86  192 -106    2
6   Staines        5   0   0   5   20  144 -124    0

London Men's League Division 1

Pos Team           P   W   D   L   F    A    PD  Pts

1   Beckenham      4   4   0   0  168   70   98    8
2   Newham         4   3   0   1  112   56   56    6
3   Chargers A     4   2   0   2   94   72   22    4
4   Esher          4   1   0   3   36  106  -70    2
5   Elmbridge      4   0   0   4   42  148 -106    0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



Rugby League World - April 2017

League Express - Mon 10th April 2017