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Bedford Roughyed

Fev make bid for Huddersfield Big 3

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You're forecasting an increase of 120% in crowds when you're going to start losing more games? That's ambitious.

5-7k crowds and you can pay full cap and be sustainable? That's absolutely ridiculous. You need 10k crowds to pay full cap and be a sustainable SL club.

Everything doesn't add up. If Fev want to be an SL club on the current crowds and pay full cap the owners would have to pay off 750k-1m of losses each year. That's just based on Hudgell having to make up 500k a year to keep HKR going on 7k crowds.

They're being ambitious but I don't think it will work out.

 

You are probably right but for consideration:

 

I guess the main revenue stream for SL club is the Sky money, followed by commercial/hospitality - well for the top clubs it will be... then the gate revenue.  So yep important but if the first two are OK it gets you towards the Cap and size of crowd then isn't the big barrier more the gate and season ticket pricing.

 

Will be interesting to see if the likes of Fev or Leigh are promoted how they balance the ticket prices. I would imagine price will go up and then it will be interesting to see reaction from current fans against the potential of attracting new fan base that haven't a "legacy" pricing issue, e.g. away team fans use to paying the higher ticket price of SL.

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I guess the main revenue stream for SL club is the Sky money, followed by commercial/hospitality - well for the top clubs it will be... then the gate revenue.  So yep important but if the first two are OK it gets you towards the Cap and size of crowd then isn't the big barrier more the gate and season ticket pricing.

 

They're changing SL, clubs who don't win enough games have to drop out and go play with Championship clubs. If next year the SL table is as it is now the barrier will be Hull, HKR, Salford and Wakefield.

 

The current barrier for clubs with SL ambitions is producing their own quality players. This is something Salford and Wakefield don't do hence they struggle, as Fev will do.

 

The next barrier is finding players to be able to compete. To bid for three top Fartown players and be laughed at kind of shows there's a very big barrier in terms of players wanting to come to Fev.

 

The quality will want to go to top eight, Those who cannot get a top eight gig will be chased by Hull, HKR. Salford, Wakefield. The first three can manage full cap OK.

 

Looks to me like Fev need to be picking off Wakefield's best players, and targetting taking their place in the bottom four of the first phase of Superleague.

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Fev have historically produced their own players, but have struggled in this department outside of Super League. Buying their way to the top is like dancing with the devil in the eyes of many of their fans, but any other way wouldn't be viable.

John Bastian was appointed by the club to set up a top class youth system, but the goalposts were moved and it's now more important to concentrate on the first team squad, but if they ever get into SL it is hoped they will be able to restrict the big clubs from harvesting so much of their local talent.

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They're changing SL, clubs who don't win enough games have to drop out and go play with Championship clubs. If next year the SL table is as it is now the barrier will be Hull, HKR, Salford and Wakefield.

 

The current barrier for clubs with SL ambitions is producing their own quality players. This is something Salford and Wakefield don't do hence they struggle, as Fev will do.

 

The next barrier is finding players to be able to compete. To bid for three top Fartown players and be laughed at kind of shows there's a very big barrier in terms of players wanting to come to Fev.

 

The quality will want to go to top eight, Those who cannot get a top eight gig will be chased by Hull, HKR. Salford, Wakefield. The first three can manage full cap OK.

 

Looks to me like Fev need to be picking off Wakefield's best players, and targetting taking their place in the bottom four of the first phase of Superleague.

 

Hard to disagree with what you say.  For me the key is the transitional couple of years until able to have the Sky money and commercial attractiveness for long enough to enable to spend to CAP and keep/attract solid SL players.  Here is where the rich backer comes in help the transition.    Of course P&R makes it a risk but then no P&R and it can never happen and the likes of Wakefield and co carry on, able to stagnate without need of any renewal concerns.

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Fev have historically produced their own players, but have struggled in this department outside of Super League. Buying their way to the top is like dancing with the devil in the eyes of many of their fans, but any other way wouldn't be viable.

 if they ever get into SL it is hoped they will be able to restrict the big clubs from harvesting so much of their local talent.

 

I'm tempted to list the 1983 cup final team again Steve. But we know it was all local but Steve Quinn. I went to Elland road in 1995 only 12 years on for the Leeds.v.Rovers RL cup semi 21,500 attendance. By that time Rovers were made up of imports (Banquet, Nixon, Ropati, Rodger & Tuuta) and second hand players from around and about like Roebuck, Southernwood (Cas) Price (Wakefield) Casey, Molloy (Oldham?) Gibson (Batley) Currier (Widnes) Aston (wakey lad?) Calland (Rochdale).

 

The only Fev lad was Martin Pearson so all the home grown stuff finished years ago and contributed to Rovers steady downfall to the third tier. I've tried to have this discussion before but was shouted down.

 

There's always been a Briscoe, a Hardaker or a Burrow come along and of course the choice of a Superleague academy place against third tier RL was no contest for these lads. What any club who get into Superleague have to do is to stop their best juniors going to the bigger clubs and that was tough to do. Salford, HKR. Cas, Widnes have been clubs who have been promoted and have also been clubs whose best youngsters have been attracted away to the better end of the table.

 

I fear that when they create the "Super8" next year, those clubs will be even more attractive to the best kids outside the 8. Who will want a professional career ending up playing play off with second tier clubs whilst the big boys play for Old Trafford. 

 

I fear the changes will make it harder for Rovers to get promotion and harder to keep any decent kids (if they even have any as they don't have a top academy). But the diehards would rather failure than success by licensing.

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Hard to disagree with what you say.  For me the key is the transitional couple of years until able to have the Sky money and commercial attractiveness for long enough to enable to spend to CAP and keep/attract solid SL players.  Here is where the rich backer comes in help the transition.    Of course P&R makes it a risk but then no P&R and it can never happen and the likes of Wakefield and co carry on, able to stagnate without need of any renewal concerns.

 

How much Nahaboo is prepared to part with is key as you indicate. If he is to be a massive benefactor to the tune of £Millions Fev don't need fans or any great commercial income. Ironically it was Ken Davey's players he was chasing and there's a club with 5,000 fans who have made the top.

 

For me the clubs who produce quality professionals like Leeds, Wigan, Hull, Bradford, Saints, Wire, Catalans always have a massive edge on top of being attractive enough to also sign the best players "on the market".

 

Outside that as we move forward the smaller clubs like HKR, Cas, Salford, Wakefield, Widnes, Fev, Leigh and Halifax are always prone to losing their best young stars, and being turned down by the bigger overseas and home players on the market.

 

As you say how much they can spend for how long will be the probable factor in who gets where in the coming years.

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How much Nahaboo is prepared to part with is key as you indicate. If he is to be a massive benefactor to the tune of £Millions Fev don't need fans or any great commercial income. Ironically it was Ken Davey's players he was chasing and there's a club with 5,000 fans who have made the top.

 

For me the clubs who produce quality professionals like Leeds, Wigan, Hull, Bradford, Saints, Wire, Catalans always have a massive edge on top of being attractive enough to also sign the best players "on the market".

 

Outside that as we move forward the smaller clubs like HKR, Cas, Salford, Wakefield, Widnes, Fev, Leigh and Halifax are always prone to losing their best young stars, and being turned down by the bigger overseas and home players on the market.

 

As you say how much they can spend for how long will be the probable factor in who gets where in the coming years.

 

 

A simple question - is Nahaboo's money going in as a loan or in exchange for equity?

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A simple question - is Nahaboo's money going in as a loan or in exchange for equity?

 

Equity.  Each time he invests, new shares are issued.  According to the press releases.

 

Additionally, they are "B" shares, which do not have voting rights.  Mark Campbell retains the majority of the "A" shares that do have voting rights.

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Equity.  Each time he invests, new shares are issued.  According to the press releases.

 

Additionally, they are "B" shares, which do not have voting rights.  Mark Campbell retains the majority of the "A" shares that do have voting rights.

 

 

Thanks.

 

Are these B shares preference shares?

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Thanks.

 

Are these B shares preference shares?

 

Not sure, never seen mention of it.  Good question though, I'll try and find out.

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Equity.  Each time he invests, new shares are issued.  According to the press releases.

 

Additionally, they are "B" shares, which do not have voting rights.  Mark Campbell retains the majority of the "A" shares that do have voting rights.

 

Not exactly.

 

A shareholders are club members/season ticket holders who've paid the extra tenner for a share (or received it free in 1996 when the club changed its status). People can only have one A share each, and I think they make up three of the seven directors. MC is an A shareholders director, but holds the same number as everyone else, ie one.

 

At the same time (1996) 100,000 B shares were issued at a tenner a throw. Not all were taken up, and it's these shares that Feisal has bought. 300,000 quids worth I think. There are four B shareholders (it might be 4/3).

 

The company of the club was set up in this slightly odd fashion to protect the interests of the fans (season ticket holders/A shareholders) against the possible alterior desires of any potential investors. TBH the system has worked well though is obviously a bit of a brake on investment in some ways.

 

Happy to stand corrected on any of that from those that know better.

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Not exactly.

A shareholders are club members/season ticket holders who've paid the extra tenner for a share (or received it free in 1996 when the club changed its status). People can only have one A share each, and I think they make up three of the seven directors. MC is an A shareholders director, but holds the same number as everyone else, ie one.

At the same time (1996) 100,000 B shares were issued at a tenner a throw. Not all were taken up, and it's these shares that Feisal has bought. 300,000 quids worth I think. There are four B shareholders (it might be 4/3).

The company of the club was set up in this slightly odd fashion to protect the interests of the fans (season ticket holders/A shareholders) against the possible alterior desires of any potential investors. TBH the system has worked well though is obviously a bit of a brake on investment in some ways.

Happy to stand corrected on any of that from those that know better.

That's as I understand it too Mark. No land assets can be disposed of without the say so of A share holders ie the season ticket holders who each bought or were given their entitlement to a single A share

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At the same time (1996) 100,000 B shares were issued at a tenner a throw. Not all were taken up, and it's these shares that Feisal has bought. 300,000 quids worth I think. There are four B shareholders (it might be 4/3).

 

 

 

According to the club's register of shareholders there are a total of 703 different shareholdings, with 532 of those being A shareholders and 171 being B shareholders.

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According to the club's register of shareholders there are a total of 703 different shareholdings, with 532 of those being A shareholders and 171 being B shareholders.

 

Yep, that'd be about right. Feisal, or at least his company, is by far the biggest B shareholder, followed by Mark Campbell.

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Yep, that'd be about right. Feisal, or at least his company, is by far the biggest B shareholder, followed by Mark Campbell.

Yes Probiz have 30,000 of the allotted shares. There are a few others with >1,000 but the majority are minor holdings of between 10 and 50 each.

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A few weeks ago I asked Feisal the question: Why Featherstone? He did admit that he liked the club and its history and was impressed with the supporters, especially the volunteers working on the new stands. But the primary reason was the fact that he and his associates were ready to invest big into a club, AND IT HAD TO BE A COMMUNITY CLUB! He said that in some way it was like a charity, which probably means that there are tax advantages. I don't know whether Fev could have kept their community club status if granted a franchise, but under the new system there seems to be no reason why not?

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A few weeks ago I asked Feisal the question: Why Featherstone? He did admit that he liked the club and its history and was impressed with the supporters, especially the volunteers working on the new stands. But the primary reason was the fact that he and his associates were ready to invest big into a club, AND IT HAD TO BE A COMMUNITY CLUB! He said that in some way it was like a charity, which probably means that there are tax advantages. I don't know whether Fev could have kept their community club status if granted a franchise, but under the new system there seems to be no reason why not?

 

Probiz specialise in finding ways of "investing" money into loss making enterprises as a way of reducing tax liabilities.

 

Why else would you invest in sport?

 

The easiest way to become a millionaire is to start off as a billionaire and invest in a sports club.

 

Nothing illegal or immoral about it, it provides employment and enjoyment to thousands and redistributes wealth.

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Probiz specialise in finding ways of "investing" money into loss making enterprises as a way of reducing tax liabilities.

 

Why else would you invest in sport?

 

The easiest way to become a millionaire is to start off as a billionaire and invest in a sports club.

 

Nothing illegal or immoral about it, it provides employment and enjoyment to thousands and redistributes wealth.

It also gives a clue as to how high profile players could fit into a club with salary cap restrictions. The Featherstone Rovers Foundation is run on grants and charitable donations separate from the club. They employ a couple of players as Community Development Officers which tops up their part-time rugby contracts to a full time equivalent, in a similar way that some are employed by local education authorities. The Foundation provides educational opportunities throughout all age groups within the area, in a different way to schools and colleges, and would be an ideal employment opportunity for players looking toward a career after Rugby League, possibly also giving them opportunities to study for qualifications themselves, maybe towards a degree? If the Foundation was to grow further, with more charitable donations, maybe it would be able to employ more people?

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A few weeks ago I asked Feisal the question: Why Featherstone? He did admit that he liked the club and its history and was impressed with the supporters, especially the volunteers working on the new stands. But the primary reason was the fact that he and his associates were ready to invest big into a club, AND IT HAD TO BE A COMMUNITY CLUB! He said that in some way it was like a charity, which probably means that there are tax advantages. I don't know whether Fev could have kept their community club status if granted a franchise, but under the new system there seems to be no reason why not?

 

He didn't reply with "Because Featherstone have got a shed load of land that I'm interested in that will make me a small fortune" then?

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He didn't reply with "Because Featherstone have got a shed load of land that I'm interested in that will make me a small fortune" then?

 

If you read a few posts to up from that one, you'll see that the assets of the club are protected.

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If you read a few posts to up from that one, you'll see that the assets of the club are protected.

I was only messing anyway mate  -poor attmept at humour

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Has he lost the plot? Todays whoosh of  - of - well nothing of any substance is very odd. Marquee signing from Hudds, Pryce, Carvell, Sammutt, Pitts and Frank Lampard all on West Yorks twitter - sorry realised FL story wasn't credited to Fev. Full time next season repeated also

Must be very good news to all the blokes leaving their all on the pitch or the kids coming through to see the links to the 'old heads' for next year

Fev had created a unique team spirit over a number of years imo, that seems to have been ripped apart in a few months of knee jerk reactions

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Has he lost the plot? Todays whoosh of  - of - well nothing of any substance is very odd. Marquee signing from Hudds, Pryce, Carvell, Sammutt, Pitts and Frank Lampard all on West Yorks twitter - sorry realised FL story wasn't credited to Fev. Full time next season repeated also

Must be very good news to all the blokes leaving their all on the pitch or the kids coming through to see the links to the 'old heads' for next year

Fev had created a unique team spirit over a number of years imo, that seems to have been ripped apart in a few months of knee jerk reactions

 

Lots to agree with there Sweaty.

 

The major ballsup was the appointment of John Bastian, he ripped the heart and soul out of the team and brought in players who were not of the right standard, all with the board's consent.  We are bloody lucky to be second in the table, the only saving grace for us has been that Sheffield and Halifax have been equally poor.

 

Lots of knee jerking has gone off since Bastian was shown the door, but from the tweets I followed this morning, it sounds like the ship may finally be steadying. Sounds like there have been major changes in the boardroom.

 

Good luck to Andy Hay, hopefully he'll have got us sorted by August and we'll be able to give you a game.

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