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Defender1

Height of Summer Rugby?

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I have taken my information from the RLE and various website's so is not 100% accurate but to me prints a bit of an alarming pattern for summer rugby, with all the spin from the RFL and the recent YML meeting everything is thriving.

I have looked at the various leagues and counted the open age teams that are on the websites as well as the games this weekend. We are now Mid season and all teams that are going to be playing should be playing by now. To me it appears as I have said before a part time sport with most clubs appearing to like the entry concept where you play when and if you want with no commitment, the RFL would say the entry league creates new players and teams, this is good but not if more are falling off the other end and would also say we are using the majority of players in the heartlands all year round, with RU players keeping fit in the summer months, and also their tills ticking over during their off season. You can see by the scores there is a lot of touch rugby going on as well as mismatches which is no good for anybody in the entry division's.

As you know there are massive sanctions and fines for the NCL so it appears get the game on at all costs despite the team you have to put out and as you see by the results sometimes at the cost of the "A team" fixture. There appears a lot of discontent regarding revenue and the struggle to cover costs, I was at a recent NCL Div 1 game and there were just over 50 people in attendance, admittedly it was raining but still poor.

Welsh South 8 Teams 3 Games

London Premier 5 Teams 2 Games

London Div 1 5 Teams 1 Game

London Merit 12 Teams 1 Game

East Division 10 Teams

East Cup 2 Games

East Plate 1 x 18.0. 1 NR

Midlands 10 Teams 2 Games 1 NR

Midlands Merit 1 Game 1 NR

North East 15 teams

North East Cup 2 Games 2 NR

North East Plate 1 Game 3 NR 1 PP

South East 6 Teams 2 Games 1 PP

South West 5 Teams 0 Games

Welsh North 4 Teams 2 Games

West of England 5 Teams 2 Games

Cumberland 10 Teams 4 Games

Barrow 8 Teams. 2 x 24.0

Cumbria 8 Teams 2 Games 1 PP

Scotland 9 Teams 0 Games

YML 3 Divs 29 Teams 12 Games 1 PP

YML Entry 25 Teams 0 Games

NWC Men 60 Teams 10 Games 1 NR 1 PP

NWC Entry 30 Teams 8 Games

NCL + Southern C 53 Teams 21 Games

Approximately 320 Teams Possible 160 Games 78 Games played 49%, this is if all teams played I know this would never happen, if you take out the NCL matches this figure drops to 42%, even if I have missed results it would still only take it to a non acceptable level. What we have to remember is we switched seasons to increase participation, stop games being postponed but in my opinion have started a steady decline that may be difficult to stop. We are not in the height of summer yet or the summer holiday period the RU season will be starting again in September, I will do the same exercise last week in July

Below is just a snap shot of Junior Rugby again from this weekend

Yorkshire Juniors

Under 17s 21 Teams 4 Games 2 x 18.0

Under 16s 41 Teams 12 Games 2 x 18.0

Under 15s 44 Teams 15 Games

Under 14s 37 Teams 12 Games

NWC Youth

U18s 37 Teams 11 Games 4 x 18.0 1 PP

U16s 28 Teams 10 Games 3 x 18.0

Barrow Junior 3 Results Total

Midlands Juniors 0 Results

North East Juniors 7 Results 3 NR

Please note this is only a snapshot and I have not the time or the information to delve further

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So you believe the switch to summer STARTED the slow decline??

 

(Speaking for the East, you do know what a cup semi final is?  Normally 4 teams play, but if you know different I'm all ears)

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So the other 6 teams went without a game?

As I state at the beginning it is a rough idea, if you only want to comment about the league you are associated with fair enough I am trying to look at the bigger picture, and if you think 49% is a good return then please say so, I am sure the RFL quoted 80% on games going a head in the YML if this is the case 42% for the rest of the leagues without NCL and YML is even lower, now is this good???

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Lets look at the Midlands, you say -

 

Midlands 10 Teams 2 Games 1 NR

 

But the Midlands website says -

 

10 Teams and 5 Games?

 

Who is right?

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Your figures -

 

Midlands = 40%

East = 60%

 

From the websites -

 

Midlands = 100%

East = 75%

 

(East was a cup weekend, only 8 teams actually compete in the cup)

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I don't quite get the same number of results as you do?

 

Here's the percentages of possible games played -

 

Welsh South - 75%
London Premier - 100%
London Div 1 - 50%
London Merit - 16%
East Cup - 100%
East Plate - 50%
Midlands  - 100%
Midlands Merit - 50%
North East Cup - 100%
North East Plate - 50%
South East - 66%
South West - 50%
Welsh North - 100%
West of England - 100%
Scotland - 0%

 

I make that as an average of 61% of possible games being played in the non-traditional areas.  Taking out the merit leagues and that goes up to 70%.

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Midlands is 80% as North Derbyshire pulled out and scores are the average score against them

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Was it Benjamin Disraeli  that said there are three types of lies; Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics?

 

Lots of different interpretations on our league's figures.

 

Better to deal in facts: Midlands Premier = 4 Games played, Midlands Merit League = 2 Games Played

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YML fIXTURES COMPLETED - 2012 -  60%  2013 - 76%  2014 so far - 82%

 

Was it Benjamin Disraeli  that said there are three types of lies; Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics?

 

Lots of different interpretations on our league's figures.

 

Better to deal in facts: Midlands Premier = 4 Games played, Midlands Merit League = 2 Games Played

Which type of lies do your RFL paymasters tell Dave?

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YML fIXTURES COMPLETED - 2012 -  60%  2013 - 76%  2014 so far - 82%

the 82% will drop soon when the winter teams start back training and playing

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I think some of you need to either contact Phil Hodgson earlier to get the results in the RLE or up date your websites earlier. I put all the teams in a pot to get an overall average, as said I cannot submit figures if you have more up to date information.

Henage you say 82% which looking at the leagues is correct do you not count the entry teams as there were no results??? We tried to get a fixture and could not as the team we were playing could not get a team, so 25 entry teams no games %??

I stand by my comment no increase in participation, still games (if not more) being called off if for other reasons than the weather, I have always said winter was not going well and on the decline, summer has not fixed the problem, how are we going to fix the problem? Nobody ever answers that question????

Plus no body mentioned NDC had dropped out of the league, all going well??

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NDC basically have already struggled at open age due to Sheffield Eagles raiding their strong juniors for their academy team. Still 9 solid midlands premier sides.

Given how last winter went I don't see that as a solution.

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The fixture fulfilment rate was no higher than summer so shows it's an across the board issue. The Pennine and possibly Hull leagues had the worst seasons I can remember for fixture fulfilment and the NWCL and Yorkshire Youth collapsed.

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The Yorkshire Youth collapsed for other reasons and the YJ did not replace this league, 4 fixtures this weekend at u17 and no U18?? Our A team played in the Hull winter league with no call offs due to the weather and fulfilled all their fixtures, please give me a statistic for the Pennine?

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I really can't be bothered working out for 100 clubs statistics but 1 or 2 clubs pulled out early in each of the 10 divisions plus several other clubs called games off in most divisions. Hull league 5 clubs over the 2 divisions pulled out midseason. The problem is largely clubs shipping in NCL players and then them going back to summer from what I can tell but may not be the case for every club.

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I think some of you need to either contact Phil Hodgson earlier to get the results in the RLE or up date your websites earlier. I put all the teams in a pot to get an overall average, as said I cannot submit figures if you have more up to date information.

Henage you say 82% which looking at the leagues is correct do you not count the entry teams as there were no results??? We tried to get a fixture and could not as the team we were playing could not get a team, so 25 entry teams no games %??

I stand by my comment no increase in participation, still games (if not more) being called off if for other reasons than the weather, I have always said winter was not going well and on the decline, summer has not fixed the problem, how are we going to fix the problem? Nobody ever answers that question????

Plus no body mentioned NDC had dropped out of the league, all going well??

not counting the entry league

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the 82% will drop soon when the winter teams start back training and playing

Will have to wait until the 30th August when the league fixtures need to be completed . Hopefully the % will improve/stay the same , a lot of teams are working hard to get the fixtures on , crowds seem quite good at the games Ive seen , positive stuff .

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Or you can massage the figures by not showing the 24-0s  like one RFL run league is doing ,

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Will have to wait until the 30th August when the league fixtures need to be completed . Hopefully the % will improve/stay the same , a lot of teams are working hard to get the fixtures on , crowds seem quite good at the games Ive seen , positive stuff .

Your dreaming about the crowds being good

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Or you can massage the figures by not showing the 24-0s  like one RFL run league is doing ,

What about the results being formulated that included teams that never got over the start line to give the impression that games where being played. Does this still happen Dave?

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Your dreaming about the crowds being good

Games I've watched have had plenty of people watching , dont think I was dreaming . I watch teams that play on public areas so cant charge a entrance fee . Still have a go on the raffles/bucket collection .

Dont think going through the fixtures/results then picking out details that flag up certain view points does much for the thread as it seems to be the same posters .

I've also watch plenty of games through the winter season some good crowds watching some poor crowds , some teams not finished season etc etc - much like summer rugby . Just like to support local sport when I can .

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Games I've watched have had plenty of people watching , dont think I was dreaming . I watch teams that play on public areas so cant charge a entrance fee . Still have a go on the raffles/bucket collection .

Dont think going through the fixtures/results then picking out details that flag up certain view points does much for the thread as it seems to be the same posters .

I've also watch plenty of games through the winter season some good crowds watching some poor crowds , some teams not finished season etc etc - much like summer rugby . Just like to support local sport when I can .

I am sorry but any positivity and having balanced views are not allowed on these threads, you will be accused of smoking illegal substances or drinking to excess   ;)

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