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Martyn Sadler

Culture, image and Rugby League

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There were immediate rule changes in 1895. The game was not the same. That is a fact not a belief. Namely the peeling away from the scrum of the half from a new position on side of his own forwards. In 1895 NRFU played game different enough to be called different.

Next sentence I think you are still contributing to saying nothing.

Rugby Union Football was founded in a restaurant in Pall Mall in 1871. They in fact (another fact) in 1871 removed the more violent element of the original school sport to make it better for adults.

Details rather than inaccuracies do matter in these things.

The rule change you mention had no bearing on the physicality of the game, which was in any case essentially rugby union

Hacking was a feature of all forms of football

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I agree that "it's a real man's game" is outdated nonsense. The heavy industry that turned out teak-tough forwards that never took a step back has gone. Attitudes towards industrial accidents are also very different.

 

That's not to say that the players of today are soft, they certainly aren't, with all the gym work they now do, they are almost stronger than ever before and have to take harder hits than any previous generation. What is different is that I don't think too many players would "play on" with a broken arm / leg / eye socket these days - and quite right too. No game is worth getting crippled.

 

The game is tough enough when played by the rules. Fighting isn't in the rules and never has been. We don't need it. People who want to watch punches being thrown should be directed towards boxing.

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I agree that "it's a real man's game" is outdated nonsense. The heavy industry that turned out teak-tough forwards that never took a step back has gone. Attitudes towards industrial accidents are also very different.

That's not to say that the players of today are soft, they certainly aren't, with all the gym work they now do, they are almost stronger than ever before and have to take harder hits than any previous generation. What is different is that I don't think too many players would "play on" with a broken arm / leg / eye socket these days - and quite right too. No game is worth getting crippled.

The game is tough enough when played by the rules. Fighting isn't in the rules and never has been. We don't need it. People who want to watch punches being thrown should be directed towards boxing.

Exactly

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The rule change you mention had no bearing on the physicality of the game, which was in any case essentially rugby union

Hacking was a feature of all forms of football

So what! You do seem intent on pointing out things that were never in question. So what if it had no bearing on the physicality of the game. Just the efficiency of the scrum and spectacle of the play directly after its execution. Essentially RU apart from the changes.

"Hacking was a feature of all forms of Football".  Prior to the establishment of Rugby Union Football, Association Football and RL Football. 

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To Jonoco

Please examine this pecking order to see the affect of verbal abuse can have if not controlled :-

RFL > Clubs > Fans > affects Players > Kevin Sinfield lashes out and now we have a mess.

So if the fans are being abusive then the Club must take action. If the Club doesn't take action, then the RFL must take action against the Club.

So how can you say its not an RFL issue? Its up to the RFLs job to ensure we keep control of verbal abuse from the Club level downwards.

 

Its a like the adverts influencing you on TV - watch and listen to the adverts enough times then that affects the masses e.g.you end up buying Pepsi Max instead of Coca Cola - your programmed to think that you get more pleasure from one or the other. Same with Kevin Sinfield, over the years, he must be filled with so much hate towards the opposition, passed on by the fans, that he now has to regret that mistake for the rest of his life. So is it his fault or the fans who influenced him? or the Clubs fault for not influencing against verbal abuse enough? or the RFLs fault for not ensuring the Clubs are controlling verbal abuse? or purely the players own fault?

 

So in this pecking order, I would say that we all share the blame, would you? -

RFL > Clubs > Fans > affects Players > Kevin Sinfield lashes out and now we have a mess

 

Now when you buy Pepsi your not sure why but you believe it tastes the best. As you know, companies spends millions on advertising because they know the power it has over you even subconsciously.

 

So who should take the blame? Its a hard-one. If we are influenced by outside forces as much as companies believe in advertising then Kevin Sinfield cannot be held to blame at all. He was in affecttively programmed by the fans to react like he did to what seemed like a something would seem fairly minor to anyone else.

 

But my main argument is that its not so clear cut who is to blame. Fans need to be consistantly re-educated how to treat players on both sides and not to dish out any abuse - full-stop.

The last reference to "Re-education" I can call to mind is in Nineteen Eighty Four. 

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So what! You do seem intent on pointing out things that were never in question. So what if it had no bearing on the physicality of the game. Just the efficiency of the scrum and spectacle of the play directly after its execution. Essentially RU apart from the changes.

"Hacking was a feature of all forms of Football". Prior to the establishment of Rugby Union Football, Association Football and RL Football.

You are right

You've got me

I agree with all you say

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Anyway nothing posted in any Forum is going to change anything is it???

don't know about that mate

 

I've now been convinced that blows to the head are an integral part of the manly appeal of rugby league

all this stuff about brain injury, eye damage is just a load of political correctness.

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Clear you are a troll but I will answer you anyway.

Nah...the prime requirement in football is skill. It requires more talent with using your feet being a lot harder than the easier task of using your hands. Both league and union it's about bulk, and ball carrying. Using your feet is a small aspect of the game. AFL is derided as hoofball..aimlessly kicking the ball up the field. They look hopeless in International rules when the ball is on the ground and they have to use their feet.

Skills pay the bills...and "the beautiful game" garners most attention because of it. Skill is what leaves folk open mouthed and attracts most interest..this is why when such moments of genius occur and are uploaded they get millions of views...and with football it's a regular occurance. A rare moment of skill in Rugby was a dummy pass by O'Driscoll which got over a million hits on YouTube...imagine if Rugby had endless moments such as this it would become a major sport (either code). Running into people, while having some admirers, doesn't leave you open mouthed.

You clearly know nothing about Rugby League. What exactly is more talent using your feet? Have you tried running and  passing a rugby ball 20 metres with your hands  both left and right so that the man you are passing to can catch it without adjusting his pace? Try it and see how easy it is. Soccer gets attention because of the media hype as well as the money and easy access to watch games whether you be in Africa, Europe, Americas etc . Many people follow soccer because of their mates and want to be part of the crowd. There are endless moments of skill in Rugby League if you take your Soccer glasses off. The kicking and passing skills of Cronk, Thurston to the agility of wingers like Morris, Waqa, Nightingale. If you think Rugby League is just bash bash bash then you clearly have no idea and are just a troll.

 

Hmm..well there are different degrees of skill...breathtaking moments are seen on a regular basis from the very best players...Luis Suarez for the whole of last season for example. Wasn't a game I watched that he didn't do something ridiculous with the ball. 

 

Cold say the same about Thurston or Cronk and Slater or Foran/Cherry Evans. Quality skill putting their body and mind to the limit. Wheres this skill in soccer because it was largely missing during the Soccer World Cup.

 

Then there's the method of scoring...a goal in football is the most visually pleasing in sport, and gets by far most views online. Running with the ball tucked in your arm and then crossing a line the width of the field...how many vids are there on YouTube of this? Not many. Any those that are on there don't get many views...and It's not because it's a much easier method of scoring, it's because it's visually much less aesthetic pleasing. A quality goal in football gets uploaded and quickly accumulates a huge number of hits. My point again is that if Rugby (either code) had more moments of skill the interest in the sport would increase.

 


 

I've read threads on here where RL folk talk about how the sport can grow....and it's this that I am referring to. It's action on the field that really is the be all end all. Its this that generates interest. The image of football is far far worse than RL...primadonna players, huge wages and egos, cheating....biting...but people who watch don't care about all of this. It's trivial..infact if anything more scandal is only a good thing (bad publicity is good publicity). Luis Suarez bites someone and it makes headline news all over the world...and u have the likes of Mike Tyson, Holyfield...and Bruce Springsteen chiming in on it. It just makes the story bigger..and this is a celebrity world we are living in. Rugby league players come across as down to earth, approachable, there doesnt appear to be much (if any) cheating..the lack of foreign influence helps on this score.

 

Nothing to do with action on the field at all. Rugby Leagues problem often is down to money and poor administration as well as next to no media/promotion/advertizement. Its very easy to get development and promotion of your sport with money and the right connections. Maybe thats why soccer has struggled in America and Australasia as it hasnt had the money or connections to be a major spoort in them areas. The image of corruption in soocer is on a par with the image of poor administration from Rugby League. 

 

The biggest sports in the world are not collision based...football, basketball, golf, tennis, boxing...while motor racing, cycling and athletics are global. Each variation of a collision based games are played in their own pockets...American football in America, Aussie Rules in Australia, while the two Rugby codes are almost entirely played within the British commonwealth (save southwest France)...they aren't as appealing for most people. I dont know if there is simply a glass ceiling for Rugby league...there may well be...certainly it appears that way in England due to the obvious division in north and south. 

 

 

American Football is one of the biggest sports in the world and also one of the most richest. You talk to people in the Netherlands, Australia, China, South Africa, ENgland and I bet most could name an American Football team. I know people from various lands that are in to American Football and follow it on TV. Adverts for a spot during an Ad Break during Superbowl is about the most expensive in the world

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The biggest skill in RL is the ability to do everything you mentioned while knowing you are about to be smashed by a 15 stone athlete. Catching and passing a ball can be taught and is a skill, catching and passing a ball under the pressure Pro and Semi Pro players endure during a game is incredible.

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don't know about that mate

 

I've now been convinced that blows to the head are an integral part of the manly appeal of rugby league

all this stuff about brain injury, eye damage is just a load of political correctness.

Well that head injury assertion was an entire invention of your own based on a non sequitur so it is little wonder you are convinced by it. Never really understood contributors answering a position that was never taken.

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Well that head injury assertion was an entire invention of your own based on a non sequitur so it is little wonder you are convinced by it. Never really understood contributors answering a position that was never taken.

You are of course right

For which I thank you

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@D.Collins. I no longer watch much football (aside from the WC which was very good) as I don't think its exciting anymore. Not sure how that fits in but there you go.

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Well that head injury assertion was an entire invention of your own based on a non sequitur so it is little wonder you are convinced by it. Never really understood contributors answering a position that was never taken.

Your post #149.

You did not start this thread.

It does not orbit you.

You are not the moderator.

Like your new identity, though.

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