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davidhubball

Why shout SET before running forwards/backwards in a line

102 posts in this topic

Going back to Keniworth's strange comment - if you don't think my comments are genuine then why are you even bothering to get yourself involved in this topic? 

Question for you: Are your going to genuinely going to lose against Leeds on Thursday???

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So ok I'll be honest - it was tougher to coach than thought. At the beginning, I sat the kids down and talked about calling SET and IN, even got them practice shouting it on their own and together as one. The kids felt bored a fair bit but in the end at first but I think they got more from it that if I'd just let them do drills without explaining the reason for practising it.

I explained what peripheral vision is for when running in a defensive line and then practised them shouting SET IN as loud as they could - they loved that bit lol.

Then I invented a drill to teach them about the invisible defender called the Touch line where they see how easy it is to push someone over the line- they grasped that fine with a bit of resistance to do it at first.

Some grasped all the concepts more than others and then I got a mini-game going again trying to get them to shout SET and IN.

 

Some teenagers even came over to try and help me. They thought they knew best but I put them right from learning from the discussions e.g one said run backwards after tacking a defender - I remember learning that it saves energy and its quicker to run forward but keep your eye on the ball - that made perfect sense to the age 10s so now they know more about this bit than the teenagers!!

 

By the end they seemed to understand that the long explanations were necessary and also understood that I won't need to take as long explaining next time.

 

Its done me good to get a taste of how hard it is so I take partly back some of the judgemental things I said about the boring drills he gave the kids before.

 

One kid kept giving me attitude and sent him around the pitch twice. At the end he said he gave me a 3 out 10 at the beginning of the training and then a 9 out 10 at end which was quite satisfying to hear.

 

Cheers for you support

Dave

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The coach didn't turn up and I had the opportunity to train them on my own.

 

Before the training started I asked the club owner if they needed another coach or a backup coach but the answer was that its alright we don't need any more coaches - I kind of expected that answer.

 

So ok I'll be honest - it was tougher to coach than thought. At the beginning, I sat the kids down and talked about calling SET and IN, even got them practice shouting it on their own and together as one. The kids felt bored a fair bit but in the end at first but I think they got more from it that if I'd just let them do drills without explaining the reason for practising it.

I explained what peripheral vision is for when running in a defensive line and then practised them shouting SET IN as loud as they could - they loved that bit lol.

Then I invented a drill to teach them about the invisible defender called the Touch line where they see how easy it is to push someone over the line- they grasped that fine with a bit of resistance to do it at first.

Some grasped all the concepts more than others and then I got a mini-game going again trying to get them to shout SET and IN.

 

Some teenagers even came over to try and help me. They thought they knew best but I put them right from learning from the discussions e.g one said run backwards after tacking a defender - I remember learning that it saves energy and its quicker to run forward but keep your eye on the ball - that made perfect sense to the age 10s so now they know more about this bit than the teenagers!!

 

By the end they seemed to understand that the long explanations were necessary and also understood that I won't need to take as long explaining next time.

 

Its done me good to get a taste of how hard it is so I take partly back some of the judgemental things I said about the boring drills he gave the kids before.

 

Going forward, I will help even more and step in more to give explanations where the Coach doesn't explain.

 

One kid kept giving me attitude and sent him around the pitch twice. At the end he said he gave me a 3 out 10 at the beginning of the training and then a 9 out 10 at end which was quite satisfying to hear.

 

Miilion dollar question now!! Do I just pay for myself to do the Level 1 Coaches badge? lol

 

Cheers for you support

Dave

 

Dave, Dave, Dave, Dave...............DAVE!!!!   :no:

 

Unfortunately we have ourselves a bit of a welfare issue here!!!!!!!!!!

 

One which I am sure the RFL would like to investigate.........................

 

You an unqualified coach by your own admission took the training session tonight.............

 

I quote.............."The coach didn't turn up and I had the opportunity to train them on my own"

 

Oh dear............some very serious insurance issues there Dave and if you have spoken to a senior club official and they were aware you took that session tonight then clearly they are not operating within the correct protocol as a club and need to be held accountable.

 

More importantly should ANY of those kids been seriously injured tonight then you would have been personally liable as the insurance would have been null and void!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tym0MObFpTI

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That sounds quite worrying. I won't volunteer to take a session on my own ever again - forget it!!! I'm gonna join another club next season - this is the last straw.

 

Cheers for making me fully aware

Dave

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That sounds quite worrying. I won't volunteer to take a session on my own ever again - forget it!!! I'm gonna join another club next season - this is the last straw.

Cheers for making me fully aware

Dave

Dave, this sounds like the best idea you have had.

I admire your enthusiasm and desire for your son to receive the best possible coaching, but I would take a step back at this stage.

To be honest the club you are at sounds like a bit of a joke. As Lord Charles has said there are serious insurance implications with an unqualified coach taking a session on his/her own. Another child welfare issue would be whether the club had a CRB check for you (not that I am saying you have a chequered past, but the club should be looking to protect all its kids at all times).

I coached juniors a few years back but had to stop when we started a family, I simply couldn't dedicate the time necessary to provide good coaching. Now my young ones are older and getting into rugby themselves, I will look to get back into coaching myself. Even though I have years of coaching experience I will look to find a well structured club where I can be an assistant coach, update my qualifications and ease myself back into the game.

I suppose my message to you is don't run before you can walk. If you are serious about coaching find a good club, get your qualifications, where possible act as assistant to a good coach for a while before becoming "head coach".

Best of luck to you, I hope your recent bad experiences don't put you or your son off the game.

As an aside, have these recent threads about coaching highlighted the need for a Coaching sub-forum?

It could be a good meeting place for people to swap ideas, drills, reading material, clips, course information etc etc

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Hi Railway

Thank you for your words of support - I absolutely appreciate everyones feedback as well as its all been mostly.positive.

 

I spoke to my son this morning and explained that I can never coach again on my own without a qualified coach running the session. Hes now starting to understand that its in his interests to at least try a few training sessions at another club to see if he would still enjoy it. Hes afraid to leave his friends but I also explained its highly likely that his friends will either quit or find another club in the future. I also mentioned that it would only take 1 or 2 more of his kids to quit and the team could get scrapped due to low numbers, then he will regret going so far with them just for it to get scrapped in the end. I also said that he could go back again to his old club in the future if he wanted to as there would be nothing stopping him.

 

I love your comment advising me to find a well structured club which also has a good experienced coach who would be happy to take me under their wing if I felt the need to coach again. I've only stepped into help because it frustrates me to see my son upset but I won't offer again to run the session on my own or accept if I get asked.

 

So far I've emailed one other club which I know is well-structured (it even has an A and B team for age 11s).  But since your email, I will email another club as well which I think has close ties with Leeds Rhinos which seem like a strong outfit as well.

 

Regarding setting up a sub-forum, I don't think I'll need to make use of the now !!! These troubles will soon be far behind me :)

 

Kind Regards

Dave

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Am I the only one who doesnt think these threads by davidhubball aren't genuine?

 

Yes, you are not.................

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Yes, you are not.................

my apologies - probably the worst worded post of all time!

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Seems an odd use of someone's time if they're not.

The same could be said for TRL full stop. :unsure:

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my apologies - probably the worst worded post of all time!

:biggrin: I must admit it had me stumped for a minute or two!

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As an aside, have these recent threads about coaching highlighted the need for a Coaching sub-forum?

There is a Community RL forum which may be half way there.

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I would like to say a massive thanks to every ones comments in my posts over the last few days - the thanks really deserves a Post all of its own. You have all definitely helped me to raise MY standards and taught me so much.

I'm now in contact with 2 other clubs for my son who deserves much better at surprisingly little extra financial cost. I'm happier and I have no doubt that my little family will be happier as a result. I really don't think we'll look back within a few weeks time.

Without you all, I would be still worrying how am I going to make my sons rugby better. I'd still be talking it over with my wife driving her mad!! Getting more and more frustrated with the whole set up.

Heres sending some love out to you all!!

Enjoy the game tonight massively!!!

Cheers

Dave

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my apologies - probably the worst worded post of all time!

 

:hi:  B)

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Could the problem be that the Level 2 coaching course is geared towards adults as opposed to making it fun.

This is a huge issue in coach education in rugby league IMO. As someone who has coaching experience and certificates in many sports (part of my old job role), sports like basketball, tennis, squash and even fencing have tailored coaching certificates aimed at coaching children.

Looking at the RFL website, they only offer Level 1-4 certificates, and having taken the Level 2, despite it being an excellently run course, it was aimed at adults. Core skills, technical skills, tactical, nutrition, etc were all good for knowledge of the game (helped me as a player as well). However, knowledge of the game DOES NOT make you a good coach.

The RFL need to run a specific course aimed at teaching children, featuring areas educating coaches on how children learn; what is important to get/keep them interested; developing skills using game-based activities (not drills), giving examples and encouraging coaches to be creative; and dealing with behaviour positively.

There would be a huge increase in RL at junior level if coaches were educated better in coaching children, and not just coaching rugby league.

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Yes but why did you skip out the Level 1 course - the level 1 course might have been more geared towards coaching children and teenagers and would have been better suited to your coaching. I'm not saying it would help much more - I'm just saying because you've only done the Level 2.

 

And did feed back your point to the RFL after the course? I'm sure your not the only one that feels the same.

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Yes but why did you skip out the Level 1 course - the level 1 course might have been more geared towards coaching children and teenagers and would have been better suited to your coaching. I'm not saying it would help much more - I'm just saying because you've only done the Level 2.

And did feed back your point to the RFL after the course? I'm sure your not the only one that feels the same.

The Level 1 is basically I simplified version of the next step. Coaching children shouldn't be seen as a step below coaching adults. It's a completely different skill set.

I've fed back after the coaching course and as well as after CPD sessions. I'm not the only one that has. I also emailed the RFL about whether they had intended on running these courses and offered to put some of the coaches I was employing at the time on to them. I heard nothing back.

Believe me, I've tried to get this going.

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Wellsy, how long ago did you take your level one qualification?  I did mine earlier this year, and I wouldn't consider it to be a simplified version of coaching aimed at adults.

 

The acronym used was 'CAYPABLE' - Children and Young Players Activity Based Learning - and the whole course was predicated on using games rather than drills to teach the core skills, with breakout activities interspersed, and related to the games focussing on stability, object control, and locomotion.  We were explicitly taught how to introduce these games, how to demonstrate skills (silently), and how to use questioning and feedback.

 

I have used this, I hope, successfully at my school, where I have started a club for Years 3 and 4 (age 7 to 9); the kids seem to like it anyway.  Hopefully by the time they reach the age that I work with at my club - under 15s - they will have the basics and game sense sorted.

 

Primary Rugby League have posted this video of a talk by Richard Shuttleworth 

which puts it better than I have.

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Is this not an education thing. Adults and kids should probably be doing the same sort of stuff but for different amounts of time, surely? Bearing in mind that adults already know the basics but also have longer attention spans and probably know better why they are running some drills

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Wellsy, how long ago did you take your level one qualification? I did mine earlier this year, and I wouldn't consider it to be a simplified version of coaching aimed at adults.

The acronym used was 'CAYPABLE' - Children and Young Players Activity Based Learning - and the whole course was predicated on using games rather than drills to teach the core skills, with breakout activities interspersed, and related to the games focussing on stability, object control, and locomotion. We were explicitly taught how to introduce these games, how to demonstrate skills (silently), and how to use questioning and feedback.

I have used this, I hope, successfully at my school, where I have started a club for Years 3 and 4 (age 7 to 9); the kids seem to like it anyway. Hopefully by the time they reach the age that I work with at my club - under 15s - they will have the basics and game sense sorted.

Primary Rugby League have posted this video of a talk by Richard Shuttleworth

which puts it better than I have.

I didn't do a Level One, as I said. It's been 7 years since I took my Level Two. I asked about the Level One, saying I intended to go on to the Level Two, and was advised to go straight on to it as I'd learn what you get in the Level One there anyways.

If, as you say, that's what the Level One was mainly based on, then at least there is something out there. However, that creates a new issue. If coaching children is seen as a lower "level", then it's going to be ignored. Levels should be used for the degree of learning, not the audience aimed at.

I didn't get any advice in the Level Two for coaching Primary aged children (I didn't ask for any as I wasn't coaching them at the time anyway). When I went on to coaching younger children, I ignorantly assumed that it was fairly transferable throughout the age groups. How I was wrong.

The RFL need SPECIFIC courses aimed at coaching Primary school children. It is the kids that will miss out the most by being coached by people who think they have been trained but are applying completely inappropriate methods for the age group (something which is not their fault).

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Is this not an education thing. Adults and kids should probably be doing the same sort of stuff but for different amounts of time, surely? Bearing in mind that adults already know the basics but also have longer attention spans and probably know better why they are running some drills

Probably couldn't be further from the truth.

If you drill kids, they won't come again. They won't learn. They'll just switch off. Kids want to have fun and that is their prime motivation. That's not always the same for adults.

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I have the max respect to any coach from the Hull area. At the Leeds Rhinos Rugby Challenge held in Skegness for teams aged 9 to 14, the teams from Hull always seem to do far better and you can tell when you watch them play that they've been well coached. Thanks for you advice.

Cheers

Dave

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