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LordCharles

Are the rules just being made up to suit?

40 posts in this topic

isn't NCL  already tier 4

 

Super League is tier 1

Championship is tier 2

Championship 1 is tier 3

 

Other Community Leagues are tier 5 

 

I thought this was changed when relegation was announced for SL.

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isn't NCL  already tier 4

 

Super League is tier 1

Championship is tier 2

Championship 1 is tier 3

 

Other Community Leagues are tier 5 

 

Indeed it now is, due to Championship 1 now being Tier 3, where as originally Championships were Tier 2, NCL Tier 3 and Regional Leagues Tier 4.

 

I take it all back, I am very sorry, I got it wrong, must remember to keep up to date Pyramid files!!!!  :blush:

 

Anyway while your on IO, you don't usually respond unless it is to defend the RFL (Case in point!), so can you tell us all why no funding would be forthcoming if clubs wanted to move to an alternative playing window?

 

Also how does the limited NCL survey results all of a sudden deem everything is ok, when clubs and their representatives portray a different view?

 

Thought I would ask as you always seem very non-commital when it comes to these type of straightforward questions :)

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I just like things to be factually correct though looking on the RFL website it still says NCL is tier 3.

 

I do not know why funding would be removed if teams went back to winter, I saw it mentioned that this is 50k, does each club get the same amount? Didn't anyone ask that question at the meeting?

 

Again the only thing I have seen about a survey is on here so not sure who it was sent too or the questions asked or the results but surely the best way to find out way the views of a large number of people is to survey them and not go on heresay. What method would you use to find out the views of a large amount of people?   

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Again the only thing I have seen about a survey is on here so not sure who it was sent too or the questions asked or the results but surely the best way to find out way the views of a large number of people is to survey them and not go on heresay. What method would you use to find out the views of a large amount of people?   

 

I doubt it would be difficult to stipulate to all NCL clubs that in the interests of collating a balanced view so that the Management can consider how best to review future strategy in relation to existing and alternative playing windows, that all clubs are to recieve 2 x administrative (Head Coach & Chairman/Club Sec etc) and 6 x player questionaires/surveys at the next meeting.

 

Once completed by adminstrative and playing members of each club the questionaires/surveys need to be handed in at the following meeting with a record to be produced of who has or has not taken the time to undertake this important task on behalf of the League with which they are a member.

 

So that would be 8 x 47 questionaires returning what should be 376 responses............I'd say that would deliver a fair and balanced representation.

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£50k - Does each club get the same amount?

 

No is the simple answer, each Club get's a share `per mile' depending on the distance they have to travel to away fixtures throughout the season.

 

With regard to the survey results, perhaps if more people had taken five minutes out of their busy lives to complete the survey, the results could well have shown a different story, but we'll never know!! 

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£50k - Does each club get the same amount?

 

No is the simple answer, each Club get's a share `per mile' depending on the distance they have to travel to away fixtures throughout the season.

 

With regard to the survey results, perhaps if more people had taken five minutes out of their busy lives to complete the survey, the results could well have shown a different story, but we'll never know!! 

 

Perhaps if the "Survey" results did not suit the NCL/RFL I would be pretty damn sure they would be more proactive to ensure a balanced/favourable view was obtained!!

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£50k -

With regard to the survey results, perhaps if more people had taken five minutes out of their busy lives to complete the survey, the results could well have shown a different story, but we'll never know!!

Every one thinks someone else is doing it, as I have said before I have been told SILENCE IS ACCEPTENCE

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Apathy is vote of confidence in the RFL , HOWEVER even when robust questioning of RFL  stats and outcomes are challenged the RFL do not or can not reply so on the rule of thumb of the survey no reply to a challenge means the challenge is upheld ?

 

NOW I UNDERSTAND SIMPLES :download:

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I doubt it would be difficult to stipulate to all NCL clubs that in the interests of collating a balanced view so that the Management can consider how best to review future strategy in relation to existing and alternative playing windows, that all clubs are to recieve 2 x administrative (Head Coach & Chairman/Club Sec etc) and 6 x player questionaires/surveys at the next meeting.

 

Once completed by adminstrative and playing members of each club the questionaires/surveys need to be handed in at the following meeting with a record to be produced of who has or has not taken the time to undertake this important task on behalf of the League with which they are a member.

 

So that would be 8 x 47 questionaires returning what should be 376 responses............I'd say that would deliver a fair and balanced representation.

 

I am not criticising your suggestion but just a couple of questions spring to mind 

What would you do if each club didn't send in there 8 replies?

How would the six players at each club be selected? 

Also I could see plenty of arguments on who would get the 2 administrative surveys at each club.

 

How was this RFL survey done, who was it sent out too?

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I am not criticising your suggestion but just a couple of questions spring to mind 

What would you do if each club didn't send in there 8 replies?

How would the six players at each club be selected? 

Also I could see plenty of arguments on who would get the 2 administrative surveys at each club.

 

How was this RFL survey done, who was it sent out too?

 

RFL survey was done online.

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You tell me?

 

Through the suggestion I have made at least you would know the opinions from different areas of the clubs, Exec Committee, Coaching & Playing.

 

I think at least 1 Exec member should fill it in, the head coach and at least 6 players picked at random.

 

It needs be no more than 10-12 questions long, even a tick box/multiple choice questionaire with room for comments, that would take nobody longer the 10-15 mins tops to complete and hand back to the club rep for submission.

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After my last post i found a topic all about the survey which is great so now i know who it was sent to.

Strange you didnt know as you posted the information

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My reference of "you tell me" was a touch of sarcasm given the very limited response it generated.

Some clubs allegedly did not receive the link, others clearly did'nt bother to complete it, either way it is hardly a true reflection based on the poor numbers.

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My reference of "you tell me" was a touch of sarcasm given the very limited response it generated.

Some clubs allegedly did not receive the link, others clearly did'nt bother to complete it, either way it is hardly a true reflection based on the poor numbers.

 

Surely it was a truer reflection than half a dozen members on an RL forum?

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Surely it was a truer reflection than half a dozen members on an RL forum?

It's pitiful to be honest and what is even more pitiful is that the RFL and NCL are prepared to not only accept it but also hide behind it because it suits.

Let's put it this way, I would be willing to bet that if the concenus was for a switch back to Sept-May based on the limited numbers that responded the RFL and NCL would be very quick to condemn it and proactively set about obtaining what they would deem to be a truer reflection based on a more thorough survey that engaged more of their members!!!!

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Surely it was a truer reflection than half a dozen members on an RL forum?

Yes, it was a few more.

2000 players email addresses were sent to from the community database. 500 had bouncebacks apparently, so around 1500 received.  :O

Around 190 replied.

 

89 NCL club officials were sent the survey, 40 replied.  :bye:

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BR you and others do annoy me if you think the game is going forward then you are deluded.

I live in the heartlands and speak to rugby people every day some have been involved in the game for over 50 years people have resigned and given up, their view on things have never been so bad! Please look at the Yorkshire Juniors, NWC Juniors, Hull Youth you never see Cumbria results, where are the Midlands, NE, London youth result? Yorkshire Juniors under 16 Premier League down to 5 teams is this not the pinnacle! The game is declining, 18.0, 24.0 NO RESULT, even teams have dropped out and the results are given as an average score that they may have had, are increasing (we went summer to STOP POSTPONEMENTS) the Duke admitted West Hull entered the Yorkshire Premier and have had more cancellations than ever.

As you say there are 6 or so people on the forum contradicting the RFL trust me we are also trying to save the game in our own areas, all we are saying is we are passionate with our view you are with yours please do you really think the game is on the up if YES give me some credible instances not stats from the RFL.. Do you speak to people who live and breath the game, I am a dad my son plays, youth secretary, club secretary, RL season pass holder, played the game 40 years ago, watch a game very weekend not just my club, trust me I am worried!

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Yes, it was a few more.

2000 players email addresses were sent to from the community database. 500 had bouncebacks apparently, so around 1500 received. :O

Around 190 replied.

89 NCL club officials were sent the survey, 40 replied. :bye:

 

165 replied, which includes the 40 officials, so on that score only 125 players actually replied.

 

Even if you put them together and work off your lowest circulation figure (1500) it only gives you a return of 11% in replies, some of which were not happy bunnies!!!   :bye:

Hardly a workable amount of statistical data you could form a sound opinion off the back of is it?

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I have no doubt that you are passionate.  However, the clubs in the NCL have had repeated chances to speak up.  They haven't in any numbers, yet you seem not to accept their opinion or right to do things as they see fit.  If there is a problem they should speak out, my opinion and yours has no say what so ever in the NCL (unless you are part of the NCL).

 

On the one hand you and others are happy to give a dig to the RFL at any opportunity and make pronouncements of their incompetence.  Yet on the other, when surveys like this go out, you portray the RFL as some Machiavellian super brain, who can hoodwink all these unwary clubs.

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LC I agree but the problem is the majority of those that replied said every thing is Ok (I would like to see the forms) we have to criticise the 89% who did not bother! the issue is getting 51% to say the other playing season option is the way forward I know they are there, I have spoken to enough of them

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BR the traditional season has no figure head no leadership no body to promote the concept, BARLA has been decimated and the Chair person put in their place (on the community board), nobody is in a position to stand against the views of the RFL or the NCL, I know the NCL have agreed to stay summer within the management so clubs have no say.

You or anybody else has still not told me of any benefits to the summer game over and above what we had before, or what the RFL expected

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BR you and others do annoy me if you think the game is going forward then you are deluded.

I live in the heartlands and speak to rugby people every day some have been involved in the game for over 50 years people have resigned and given up, their view on things have never been so bad! Please look at the Yorkshire Juniors, NWC Juniors, Hull Youth you never see Cumbria results, where are the Midlands, NE, London youth result? Yorkshire Juniors under 16 Premier League down to 5 teams is this not the pinnacle! The game is declining, 18.0, 24.0 NO RESULT, even teams have dropped out and the results are given as an average score that they may have had, are increasing (we went summer to STOP POSTPONEMENTS) the Duke admitted West Hull entered the Yorkshire Premier and have had more cancellations than ever.

As you say there are 6 or so people on the forum contradicting the RFL trust me we are also trying to save the game in our own areas, all we are saying is we are passionate with our view you are with yours please do you really think the game is on the up if YES give me some credible instances not stats from the RFL.. Do you speak to people who live and breath the game, I am a dad my son plays, youth secretary, club secretary, RL season pass holder, played the game 40 years ago, watch a game very weekend not just my club, trust me I am worried!

Yorkshire Under 16s has 38 clubs over 5 divisions so the premier division being so small is more a reflection of the eague being split up wrongly than a wider issue (though maybe the higher standard saw some clubs drop out?)

 

Noone's disputing there are issues but the game was in decline the last 5 years of winter so this is just a continuation of this plus 2/3 of people want to stay summer, so summer we stay. Anyway who disagrees has been offered an alternative which is a perfectly reasonable compromise so clubs can choose of their own free will

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165 replied, which includes the 40 officials, so on that score only 125 players actually replied.

 

Even if you put them together and work off your lowest circulation figure (1500) it only gives you a return of 11% in replies, some of which were not happy bunnies!!!   :bye:

Hardly a workable amount of statistical data you could form a sound opinion off the back of is it?

 

Even if you worked off the principle that 2 out of every 3 of the respondants were happy then based off your figures BR we currently only have approximately 7% of those that could have expressed an opinion, that have actually done so and are happy with the current situation! 

 

I think if that kind of response returned a majority, and I use that term in a very reserved manner, that saw opinion want to switch to a more traditional playing window then the RFL/NCL would have deemed the survey "inconclusive" and looked to investigate further or go through a period of "Consultation" with all the clubs.

 

What is becoming more and more apparent is that the NCL Management group are prepared to use a similar approach to the RFL when situations suit, this being one.

 

However, keeping your head in the sand for too long means that sooner or later your 4rse is going to get burned!!!!

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