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The all-new never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)

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What's complicated about it?

If you get down to the nitty gritty then it's always going to be complicated. Try celeb planning the qualifiers for the Champions League, it how the Super Bowl fixtures work. No shortage of fans there.

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I have said this many times on these forums before, and I will say it again here, the new structure is - quite simply - LUDICROUS, and way too complicated.

 

I confidently predict yet another restructure within three years.

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they just need to get rid of the daft super 8s...

have a top 6 super league play offs

have a top 6 championship play offs

and then championship champions v super league wooden spooners "million pound" game

keep it simple

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Thought someone might have mentioned the increase in the number of games the new structure leads to. 

 

The number of matches the top clubs will play under the various systems are as follows:

 

Super League 2014: 27 + 3/4 playoffs + a potential 5 CC games

 

Super League 2015: 30 + 2 playoffs + a potential 4/5 CC games

 

NRL: 24 + 3/4 playoffs

 

 

Player burnout will be an issue. We'll see more players being rested mid-season, which is annoying for fans. 

 

Thnk the uneven distribution of home games is really bad - would have been better to have the Magic weekend as the first round after the split.

 

Those extra games have seen the Challenge Cup further weakened and removed the space for either a mid season international or the return of a Northern Rail Cup competition.

 

Even if player burnout wasn't an issue you've a couple of good reasons above for not wanting to just add more games.

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Rugby League should be a simple game on and off the field. Sadly the RFL as well as the Clubs want to make things complicated as possible to make things interesting. Best Thing would be to going back to making the Rugby League the simple game it was on and off the field. Try explaining the System new or has a flirting interest in Rugby League. Try explaining the obstruction rule or why the NRL, SL and Internationals all have different rules for the same game. It seems the People running our game are trying to chase some Utopia that will make the game so much better and that Clubs will be happy making loads of money in front of sellout crowds. Ist not going to happen and I think many People are just fedup with the way the game is going. How do we intend to bring the Sport to a new audience when we make life so complicated and have no real idea where we want the game to go.

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I have said this many times on these forums before, and I will say it again here, the new structure is - quite simply - LUDICROUS, and way too complicated.

I confidently predict yet another restructure within three years.

What is complicated about it?

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What is complicated about it?

 

A sort of conversation follows between a Non RL fan but thinking of watching his local team and a regular RL fan who thinks he understands the system......

 

I hear you have P&R back in RL

 

Yep, well they like to call it jeopardy.

 

Whys that then

 

Well ermm how best can I explain… it gives the chance of P&R but isn’t as straight forward as top and bottom teams being promoted or relegated.

 

Hows it work then

 

Depends upon which league…

 

Oh, we have a team down here,,, oxford something. How that league work

 

After all games are played the team finishing top and second play-off for promotion. The winner gets promoted.    However, the team that loses gets a second chance.  They play with the teams that finished 3rd, 4th, and 5th in a set of play offs – like football play-offs for promotion.  The losing team from earlier plays 5th and 3rd plays 4th. The two winners play-off in a promotion final.

 

Could you repeat that…..

 

Yada yada yada…

 

That the same for the other league then…

 

Erm no… they do something different.  The top 4 are joined by the bottom 4 of the Super League.   They play in a what is known as the qualifiers league (I think) for 4 teams to be in the following seasons super league. 

 

How that work then… the top 4 get to play in SL then,,,

 

Mmmmm not quite but almost….. The top 3 are into SL… But the 4th placed team plays the 5th placed team in a play-off for the ermmmm 4th team to be promoted.  

 

So  the 4th place get promoted…

 

Errr sorry...... for the 4th team of the 4 that get to play in Super League the following season is determined by a 4th and 5th place play-off.

 

OK ,,, pause so 4 teams are promoted then

 

Mmm well it could be the same 4 teams that were in Super League that get to play in Super League the next season

 

Oh … so where is the promotion then…

 

Well it could be one of the team in the lower league that wins one of the four places. Remember there are 8 teams made up of bottom 4 from Super League and 4 from the lower league.. the championship…

 

Oh,,,pause….. scratching head…well ..oh lets not go through it again… but why does the top team have to play the second team again…

 

That was the other league known as championship league one for promotion to the championship.   Not sure but I think its because not all teams play the same fixtures. That is a team can play different set of teams twice than the other team…

 

What….

 

They don’t play all other teams twice… they may play some teams once.  The other team may play a different set of teams twice….

 

Yeah right….. I’ll not bother....... get the pints in...

 

 

PS. I'm sure someone can come up with a better conversational exchange...

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There's going to be chaos if the bottom four SL teams get through the P&R playoffs for the next three years and nobody is promoted. Within five years we'll be having another re-structuring.

It won't go for 5 years trust me before plans B, C ,D,.E. are brought in. The RFL don't have a good record with sticking with things.

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Those extra games have seen the Challenge Cup further weakened and removed the space for either a mid season international or the return of a Northern Rail Cup competition.

 

Even if player burnout wasn't an issue you've a couple of good reasons above for not wanting to just add more games.

 

As expected, there has been no mention of Internationals within this structure. The least I was hoping for was the announcement of a rep weekend. But, as mentioned, how on earth could this fit in?

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Whilst supping his pint and in a thoughtful haze the chap sudden looks as if he grasped something and asks...

 

In the league where the top team play the second team.    

 

erm yeah..worried expression cause he sorry he's got into this conversation as he's exhausted his understanding....

 

The top team losers in the 1st v 2nd ... well say they losers again in one of the games with the 3rd 4th and 5th teams... then that means the top team doesn't get promoted.

 

mmmm yeah, possible..

 

The 5th team could be promoted but not the top team...

 

your round....

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As expected, there has been no mention of Internationals within this structure. The least I was hoping for was the announcement of a rep weekend. But, as mentioned, how on earth could this fit in.

Wash your mouth out. How dare you mention rep weekends to promote the game. Next thing your be asking is for certain clubs to produce a certain amount of juniors for their first team squads. What ever you do don't mention profit. Heaven help us if we have a majority of Rugby League clubs making a profit an being in the black. Another thing is don't mention the business mondels of the German budesliga or the NFL. God knows what some fans would do if if all the clubs made a profit.

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Posted · Hidden by John Drake, July 25, 2014 - goading

What a terrible mess.

We may well have appeased some fans of the big Championship clubs and we may have widened some interest at the end of the season. But at what cost?

.

These same people will be the ones whingeing the loudest when they find out they haven't been given exactly what they want. It's probably started already

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I showed the FAQs to a friend at work with a passing interest in RL and he understood it. His main complaint was that the wording was a bit too dry

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I showed the FAQs to a friend at work with a passing interest in RL and he understood it. His main complaint was that the wording was a bit too dry

The writing of it is amateurish. Really poor and not a good start.

 

How will the identity of the clubs in all three competitions be determined?

 

The obvious answer to this question is that the identity of the clubs involved will be determined by their name.

 

What they meant to ask is How will the composition of the three divisions be determined? How their identity be determined is an entirely different question.

 

It might seem a bit picky or overly negative, but this is the document announcing our bright and shining new era. It has been done on the first day of the commonwealth games minimising its impact, it doesnt contain all the necessary information and admits all the decisions about our bright new era havent yet been made and it is released via a poorly written press release. This is basic stuff

 

What is far more important than the system we choose, is that system being implemented well because if it isnt it is doomed to failure.

 

A poorly written and incomplete press release about a badly branded competition released at a time it was almost certain to be buried by other sports news does not fill me with faith that this wont be a bad idea, poorly implemented.

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So this restructure is basically saying that the only time my club Featherstone will ever be able to compete for a trophy is if they are fortunate enough to go into the Championship "also rans" and win the "Best Club Ranked 5-12 Cup". Okay :/

 

BTW the 4v5 "Million Pound Drop" is not competing for a trophy it is saying that you are 4th best of the middle 8.

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If you’re not keen on the new structure don't worry, knock off Nigel will be altering things in three to four years anyway to justify his (£300k pa!) job.

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A sort of conversation follows between a Non RL fan but thinking of watching his local team and a regular RL fan who thinks he understands the system......

I hear you have P&R back in RL

Yep, well they like to call it jeopardy.

Whys that then

Well ermm how best can I explain… it gives the chance of P&R but isn’t as straight forward as top and bottom teams being promoted or relegated.

Hows it work then

Depends upon which league…

Oh, we have a team down here,,, oxford something. How that league work

After all games are played the team finishing top and second play-off for promotion. The winner gets promoted. However, the team that loses gets a second chance. They play with the teams that finished 3rd, 4th, and 5th in a set of play offs – like football play-offs for promotion. The losing team from earlier plays 5th and 3rd plays 4th. The two winners play-off in a promotion final.

Could you repeat that…..

Yada yada yada…

That the same for the other league then…

Erm no… they do something different. The top 4 are joined by the bottom 4 of the Super League. They play in a what is known as the qualifiers league (I think) for 4 teams to be in the following seasons super league.

How that work then… the top 4 get to play in SL then,,,

Mmmmm not quite but almost….. The top 3 are into SL… But the 4th placed team plays the 5th placed team in a play-off for the ermmmm 4th team to be promoted.

So the 4th place get promoted…

Errr sorry...... for the 4th team of the 4 that get to play in Super League the following season is determined by a 4th and 5th place play-off.

OK ,,, pause so 4 teams are promoted then

Mmm well it could be the same 4 teams that were in Super League that get to play in Super League the next season

Oh … so where is the promotion then…

Well it could be one of the team in the lower league that wins one of the four places. Remember there are 8 teams made up of bottom 4 from Super League and 4 from the lower league.. the championship…

Oh,,,pause….. scratching head…well ..oh lets not go through it again… but why does the top team have to play the second team again…

That was the other league known as championship league one for promotion to the championship. Not sure but I think its because not all teams play the same fixtures. That is a team can play different set of teams twice than the other team…

What….

They don’t play all other teams twice… they may play some teams once. The other team may play a different set of teams twice….

Yeah right….. I’ll not bother....... get the pints in...

PS. I'm sure someone can come up with a better conversational exchange...

I think if you go in with an agenda to over complicate and talk it down to non-RL fans, they're gonna look down on it as well.

You've basically tried your hardest to put this guy off because you're not a fan of the structure. Well done.

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So this restructure is basically saying that the only time my club Featherstone will ever be able to compete for a trophy is if they are fortunate enough to go into the Championship "also rans" and win the "Best Club Ranked 5-12 Cup". Okay :/

BTW the 4v5 "Million Pound Drop" is not competing for a trophy it is saying that you are 4th best of the middle 8.

Aren't the top of the Championship after 23 rounds the champions? You'd assume so if it's not mentioned already.

I wouldn't have minded seeing a SL Shield (in the same vein as the Championship Shield) to compliment trying to finish in the top two of your group. At least it gives you a little something to cheer about if you've had a rubbish season!

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Aren't the top of the Championship after 23 rounds the champions? You'd assume so if it's not mentioned already.

I wouldn't have minded seeing a SL Shield (in the same vein as the Championship Shield) to compliment trying to finish in the top two of your group. At least it gives you a little something to cheer about if you've had a rubbish season!

 

This is not mentioned in the document. This whole system should have been given a much longer consultation period. This would allow the 2 top competitions of 12 (SL and C) to settle down into a regular format.

 

It could have started with a relegation/promotion play-off between the Championship GF winners and SL's 12th club and worked on from there. When it all boils down to it that is what the 'million pound game' is anyway when you take away the fluff. How exciting would this have been for Bradford fans to see if they could bounce back while all the top Championship were trying to knock them off their perch to get to this game themselves?

 

This whole system has been devised around getting down to 12 clubs in SL but trying to pad out 28-30 regular fixtures to appease the clubs. As a Hull fan, considering the season you have had, would you really be up for flogging this under-performing squad through games against Halifax, Leigh, London, Bradford and Wakefield etc. for the next couple of months.? My opinion is that the majority of the fans are looking ahead to next season already.

 

Hull have been really poor but not quite poor enough to be in relegation trouble. They don't need to prove this for another two months through processional games against slightly poorer clubs.

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I had an actual, as opposed to a made up, conversation with a couple of non fans the other day, explained how it worked, and their response was that it sounded very exciting, makes sure everyone is always playing for something, and they could easily see how a team such as Featherstone, Halifax etc could develop and be promoted to Super League.

 

They were quite positive about the whole thing!

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Bradford are still one of the big boys....as are man u

Sheffield won the league last year and are not one of the big boys same as hudds...

Bradford will bounce back, they have the best academy in Yorkshire and will keep churning out players, no dual reg for them!

Man U are still in the Premier League.

If Bradford's attendances remain at the 6,000 mark or drop and they are in the Championship. how do you figure thy are still one of the big boys.

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I think if you go in with an agenda to over complicate and talk it down to non-RL fans, they're gonna look down on it as well.

You've basically tried your hardest to put this guy off because you're not a fan of the structure. Well done.

A good structure wouldnt need cheerleaders.

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They aren't calling anything jeopardy are they? Jeopardy is what comes as a result of the new structure...

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They aren't calling anything jeopardy are they? Jeopardy is what comes as a result of the new structure...

Jeopardy is what they are chasing, it isnt inbuilt in to the system.

 

Considering Jeopardy is an abstract concept it seems a crazy thing to chase. We might as well be chasing the colour green or ennui.

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This is not mentioned in the document. This whole system should have been given a much longer consultation period. This would allow the 2 top competitions of 12 (SL and C) to settle down into a regular format.

 

It could have started with a relegation/promotion play-off between the Championship GF winners and SL's 12th club and worked on from there. When it all boils down to it that is what the 'million pound game' is anyway when you take away the fluff. How exciting would this have been for Bradford fans to see if they could bounce back while all the top Championship were trying to knock them off their perch to get to this game themselves?

 

This whole system has been devised around getting down to 12 clubs in SL but trying to pad out 28-30 regular fixtures to appease the clubs. As a Hull fan, considering the season you have had, would you really be up for flogging this under-performing squad through games against Halifax, Leigh, London, Bradford and Wakefield etc. for the next couple of months.? My opinion is that the majority of the fans are looking ahead to next season already.

 

Hull have been really poor but not quite poor enough to be in relegation trouble. They don't need to prove this for another two months through processional games against slightly poorer clubs.

 

I'd agree with that. I have real issues with the structure:

 

a. I feel it as appeasement to the SL clubs who are reducing the number of clubs getting SKY money whilst increasing their share AND ALSO increasing income through more fixtures.

 

b. There is no room for any form of International competition during the season.

 

c. The Championship as a quality competition will be destroyed as full time clubs will be competing against part timers - this is absolutely barking! I fully expect some good Championship clubs to be left behind and some completely implode.

 

d. The gap between the Championship and Championship 1 will increase due to the funding disparity between the two leagues.

 

e. I feel the game will waste millions of pounds from the new TV contract trying to make this system work by giving most of the money to the clubs and in my opinion removing much of the incentive to develop themselves sustainably; much of this money would be better being spent on building up the infrastructure of the sport, which is shocking in places.

 

It feels to me that the hierarchy has made a strategic error and retrenchment will be the result of this restructure and a waste of vast amounts of money best spent elsewhere.

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