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The Baron Mk11

Dale Bid for Stadium

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Keith Hill made it clear on Manchester Radio that Rochdale AFC have made a substantial bid to buy the ground. I believe it was on Alan Beswick's show this morning. Councillor Alan Brett will be responding to Keith Hill on tomorrows show.

 

Part of the interview with Keith Hill was repeated this afternoon on a sports bulletin. 

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Councillor Alan Brett in response said "I am flabbergasted, it's the first I have heard of it, and if the football club have a plan then I suggest they get in touch and start talking".

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Just had a look. I don't use Facebook, personally but noticed a couple of comments from one Paul Stevens on their site.

Who the hell is he to ask why we were ever allowed in to Spotland after selling The Athletic Grounds. What about pulling them out of the s***. 

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Just had a look. I don't use Facebook, personally but noticed a couple of comments from one Paul Stevens on their site.

Who the hell is he to ask why we were ever allowed in to Spotland after selling The Athletic Grounds. What about pulling them out of the s***.

They'd have gone bust without the dosh they got when we bought our share of the stadium. That was common knowledge at the time.

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Few points:

 

1) There seems to be a real case of confusion over old Hornets / new Hornets. If at the Dale we should be thankful to you for the old Hornets for saving us (which lets be fair was mutually beneficial rather than some act of benevolence by old Hornets), what should our attitude be towards the level of debt left by the old Hornets?

 

2) Is there a genuine belief that one day Hornets will be able to regain / acquire the shares from the RFL?

 

3) Does the level of debt that the Stadium Company has (upwards of £600,000) concern Hornets fans, and should as non shareholders, do Hornets have any responsibility towards that?

 

and for me this is the biggie

 

4) If a rent paying Hornets were guaranteed a place at Spotland (which I believe to be the case), what would be the problem with Dale owning the stadium 100%?

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Few points:

 

1) There seems to be a real case of confusion over old Hornets / new Hornets. If at the Dale we should be thankful to you for the old Hornets for saving us (which lets be fair was mutually beneficial rather than some act of benevolence by old Hornets), what should our attitude be towards the level of debt left by the old Hornets?

 

2) Is there a genuine belief that one day Hornets will be able to regain / acquire the shares from the RFL?

 

3) Does the level of debt that the Stadium Company has (upwards of £600,000) concern Hornets fans, and should as non shareholders, do Hornets have any responsibility towards that?

 

and for me this is the biggie

 

4) If a rent paying Hornets were guaranteed a place at Spotland (which I believe to be the case), what would be the problem with Dale owning the stadium 100%?

 

Not the point. He's talking about then, not now. To quote him ''why were Hornets ever allowed into our home after selling theirs'' is what he says.

 

Pretty obvious, I'd say.

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You're right. It is obvious and what some bloke has said on some internet site is of the most importance here rather than the future of the stadium.

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The Athletics ground raised a considerable sum at the time. Was it wasted that is opinion. What is not opinion is the improvements to the tip that was Spotland Stadium.

The main stand if my understanding is correct was funded by Hornets coming across.

Rochdale AFC were the sick man of football and Hornets did give them a boost, if I were the RFL I would look for alternative accommodation to be funded for Hornets and yes Oldham on the 62 with a 3K capacity and pen to BARLA.

Then let the football club have a stadium back that like the Shay was a TIP

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Surely ColDale`s point number 4 is the most pertinent;as long as Hornets are paying their way,Dale would be stupid to kick them out and as long as Chris Dunphy is in charge,the status quo would surely remain. Dale are in the box seat now with the money they got from the sale of Scott Hogan,so why wouldn`t they want to use it to acquire the stadium? It seems common sense to me,Hornets will just have a new name on the rent book,it doesn`t mean they`ll be out on the street. 1985 was a long time ago,times change and Hornets will have to change with the times,like it or not.

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According to a dale fan who went to the recent meeting, Dale have got considerable debts of their own. The way he read it, they don't really have any cash to splash.

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With gates of 2,500 or so the Dale must be loosing money hand over fist. The money from the sale of Scott Hogan will mainly go to keep them solvant for another season. They might be just about keeping their heads above the water like Hornets by running on a shoe string but that is only possible for a limited period of time. The additional burden of taking the stadium on is just not a viable option for them as much as they want to.

I wonder if they do get their way what Hornets rent rent would increase to. One way or another they will eventualy force us to leave.

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With gates of 2,500 or so the Dale must be loosing money hand over fist. The money from the sale of Scott Hogan will mainly go to keep them solvant for another season. They might be just about keeping their heads above the water like Hornets by running on a shoe string but that is only possible for a limited period of time. The additional burden of taking the stadium on is just not a viable option for them as much as they want to.

I wonder if they do get their way what Hornets rent rent would increase to. One way or another they will eventualy force us to leave.

You right there Doug. Their agenda is solely to remove Hornets from the stadium. After yesterday's result I would have thought any spare dosh they have would be better spent on the pitch than off it.

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Fair comment about Dale living on the breadline,selling their best players is clearly the only way they can survive,there`s nothing new in that,but so is buying the stadium in the long term. It`s the old argument about buying or renting,most of us have had to make a decision which way to go on that score. Tyrone Shoelaces assertion that the only reason Dale want to acquire the stadium is to kick Hornets out is ridiculous knowing that we all agree that Dale are so poor. Think about it,the only added source of income for Dale is using the pitch,Hornets are doing that and presumably keeping up with the rent. I have a place that I rent out,I don`t know the bloke who`s in there,but he pays the rent on time and looks after the place,so why would I want to kick him out? I`ve said it here before and I`ll say it again,for two clubs just about on the bones of their backsides and getting almost non survivable support,I would`ve thought mutual tolerance would be paramount,but for some,that`s obviously not the case. Hornets did this,Dale did that,it`s pathetic. Live and let live,you know,it`s the only way.

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Fair comment about Dale living on the breadline,selling their best players is clearly the only way they can survive,there`s nothing new in that,but so is buying the stadium in the long term. It`s the old argument about buying or renting,most of us have had to make a decision which way to go on that score. Tyrone Shoelaces assertion that the only reason Dale want to acquire the stadium is to kick Hornets out is ridiculous knowing that we all agree that Dale are so poor. Think about it,the only added source of income for Dale is using the pitch,Hornets are doing that and presumably keeping up with the rent. I have a place that I rent out,I don`t know the bloke who`s in there,but he pays the rent on time and looks after the place,so why would I want to kick him out? I`ve said it here before and I`ll say it again,for two clubs just about on the bones of their backsides and getting almost non survivable support,I would`ve thought mutual tolerance would be paramount,but for some,that`s obviously not the case. Hornets did this,Dale did that,it`s pathetic. Live and let live,you know,it`s the only way.

Let's say you have a disagreement with your current tenant Dave. You then kick them out. Does that mean you can't then rent out your property to someone else ? There is a significant faction of football club supporters that would like to see the demise of Hornets. You only have to read their message board to be aware of that.

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It's true that there are a number of Dale supporters that would like to see Hornets fail. Unfortunately for them though, unlike Hornets, the Dale is not a Co-op and so they have very little influence on the BOD, and I don't think Mr Dunphy or the rest of the board are idiots.

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It's true that there are a number of Dale supporters that would like to see Hornets fail. Unfortunately for them though, unlike Hornets, the Dale is not a Co-op and so they have very little influence on the BOD, and I don't think Mr Dunphy or the rest of the board are idiots.

Of course there are plenty of Dale supporters who would like to see Hornets fail. And we all know the reasons for that are not some anti RL feeling or like some spoilt child suddenly having to share a bedroom. It is due to historical financial problems that have stemmed from Hornets not paying their way, the subsequent financial knock on effect that has had on us, and allowing a shareholding within the stadium to fall into a third party. Of course, 95% of that is down to the old Hornets. I genuinely think that despite it being a bumpy ride at times, had the old Hornets been run like the current Hornets the vast majority of any ill feeling would never have been there in the first place. I said it before, but I think at times there is a real head in the sand mentality as to the impact the running of the old Hornets has had on the football club and the finances of the stadium.

 

I'd like to think that at Dale, we have a support base that deals with financial reality more than any the club in the country. We know that in footballing terms we are competing at a level where our income from our fanbase is probably smaller anyone else in the division (much like yourselves). We are very fortunate to be as well run as we are, and having a genius like Keith Hill in charge has ensured that we have a conveyor belt of young talent coming through that brings much needed income into the club. Without it, we'd be fighting it out with Stockport in the Conference North. But in doing so, there's an awareness that every penny is crucial, and in that there is a recognition that running the stadium on our own would be more difficult. If Hornets had not reformed, there would have been a need to find a replacement club to help with the running of the stadium. Even the biggest of the "kick them out" brigade would acknowledge that.

 

It is clear the current situation is not working. The level of debt is unsustainable in the current format, and something has to give. The RFL aren't going to put any money in, and there's too many problems in this town as it is to expect the council to do likewise. So who's going to sort it out? The alternative to us taking over the stadium and taking the responsibility for the debts would be to let the Stadium Company go into administration.If it was to get to that stage, there'd be no fairy godmother waiting in the wings, it would either be someone buying it for houses or it would be us purchasing the stadium that way. In many ways, it'd be a gamble but this could even work out cheaper for ourselves to head down that way.

 

But it would be a gamble. Which brings me back to the question I asked originally. If there was an entitlement for a rent paying Hornets to remain at Spotland, what would be the problem with the stadium being owned 100% by ourselves? Why would we put the rent up to unaffordable level when your continued presence at Spotland would only be to our advantage?

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The fact of the matter remains. Spotland was a tip worth nothing, the Athletics Ground was a prime piece of real estate the sale of which had the effect of transforming Spotland into a modern compact shared stadium. Why would the sport of rugby league not retain what is rightfully theirs, unless you were talking in terms of 2.2 million.

The old Hornets for some reason found themselves in a position that they were not paying a fair share in the equation of stadium usage compared to soccer.

Hornets would not last more than five years as tenants. The Co-operative style would not survive a more volatile situation with variable rents and weeks on the road.

I personally worry about the sustainability of not just Hornets but Oldham and Swinton as semi pro clubs and feel the amateur game will be the remains of the game in these areas in years to come.

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You right there Doug. Their agenda is solely to remove Hornets from the stadium. After yesterday's result I would have thought any spare dosh they have would be better spent on the pitch than off it.

 

I'm sorry TS and Larry but I just cannot believe my eyes at some of the things you have posted.

TS please point me in the direction of the agenda to remove Hornets from Spotland. Is it something Chris Dunphy has said, like a while ago Dale would like to take over Hornets.

Have I missed something in the Observer or Rochdale Online, have you sat in on meetings with the stadium company.

To the small number of Dale and Hornets fans who don't like each other, Dale and Hornets NEED EACH OTHER at Spotland.

 

And Rochdale as a town need both clubs.

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At the risk of being an echo - read the football message board. Plenty of football club fans would like to see the back of us. The manager of the football club would like to see the back of us and makes that fact pretty plain. The football club directors are obviously smart enough not to go around spouting this in public, but behind the scenes ?

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