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carlos

Pennine League strcuture

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Vics rangers buck the trend becuase they are throwing all sorts of cash and freebies . This is fact as they took some of our players which had a major impact on our demise. Having played pennine league for the last 15 years and worked all the way up, the last 2 years have 100% been of a lesser standard than years gone by. You only have to look at some of the players who have stuck at summer or now defected to union to see the standards have massively dropped . Having played all of those teams in the premier , most wouldn't have won a game in that league 2/3 years ago.

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Yeah just 2 seasons ago the Pennine league seemed as strong as ever but last season it all fell apart towards the end for some reason and this year's been a disaster. The top two divisions seem the worst hit but all divisions have to some extent. Slaithwaite Saracens and Moorends-Thorne Marauders are in division 5 struggling to raise a team. Keighley, Bank Top Harriers (reading between the lines your former club carlos?), Chequerfield Rangers, Westgate Wolves all gone (and a little further back Ackworth Jaguars and the short lived Knottingley Rockware Stolze) and of course Drighlington, Hunslet Parkside, Wibsey Warriors, Thornhill Trojans, Dewsbury Moor, Halifax Irish, Illingworth, Brighouse Rangers and soon Sharlston Rovers all to summer (if not more). Seemingly some of the lower divisions are less affected

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Is it not coincidence as I have said before

BARLA and the Pennine were anti-RFL, anti summer, anti operational rules (I know a few changes were made)

Since the BARLA chair and Pennine secretary goes on the Community Board attitudes seem to have changed. Who elected the community board? The RFL?

Some of the NCL teams won't be happy teams are going to summer as they may struggle for players, have Ovenden pulled away from the NCL due to other Halifax teams going summer, where the players doubling up?

I cannot believe this is just being let to happen even the RFL won't want a demise of the Pennine they are struggling to hit the participation figures as it is (please see the recent community board minutes)

Don't forget what David Gent said switch to Summer, Increase participation, revenue, standards (Has any of this happened?) please don't say the winter was in decline we all know that, the reason the RFL encouraged the game to switch was to stop the decline, as I have said before if this was a normal business David Gent would have fallen on his sword.

What did he say " Only the strong will survive" he must be the strongest man I know with all that weight on his shoulders.

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Wigan St Cuthberts , Hindley , Peterlee and now Ovenden all in the lasts 12 months leaving the NCL so if they are replaced by clubs from other leagues that still is showing a net loss to the game .

Is it a case then off The NCL just painting over the cracks ?

This is not an attack on the NCL but we have to face facts the game is massively struggling at OA ,our OA league in the NW collapsed due to the setting up of the OA summer league so the question is since the switch to summer how many OA players have been lost to the game ?

The RFL can answer that question but will they ?

The switch to summer managed effectively at junior level has shown good growth in the NW but that was a trend evident in the NW any way as we had a winter break .

Sooner or later the NGB will be held accountable if they can't stem the flow , creating hybrids the like of touch and wheelchair will not protect the X111 game our participation will ultimately be judged on .

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My personal opinion when recruiting sides into the NCL, is that they should be looking at clubs from the top divisions to ensure quality comes in, recent acquisitions look like they simply wanted to expand the league. WSC and Hindley for instance I think came from lower divisions and struggled to adapt to the conference. It is meant to be an elite competition after all.

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Wigan St Cuthberts were I think 4th in the premier division before stepping up but yeah Hindley weren't top flight.

 

The NCL were in a tough position as Woolston Rovers, Underbank, Coventry, Blackbrook, Kells and Pilkington Recs were too good to turn away but there weren't quite enough teams for a division 3 but too many for division 2. With the new Pennine league sides this is less an issue but travel will put off new applicants from the NW (particularly Widnes could do with a side or two)

 

The Pennine league has been hit by players wanting summer but officials wanting winter, but defender1 makes very valid points about what happens if everyone plays the same season. The short answer is the club:player ratio is too high and we'd have a true picture of participation not inflated by players doubling up

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The Pennine league has been hit by players wanting summer but officials wanting winter, but defender1 makes very valid points about what happens if everyone plays the same season. The short answer is the club:player ratio is too high and we'd have a true picture of participation not inflated by players doubling up

Bowes please don't go down this route again, please stop quoting that players want summer, officials want winter, ask the majority they want to play when the weather is just right for them, not too cold not too hot. There are plenty of players who have left and will not play the summer game, and even more who take time off during the season. If all these players prefer Summer why do all the rugby union players not come over full time instead of the June to August when their season is over, when we are actually playing in their off season during those summer months, are all these leagues growing, no, part time players playing a part time sport

Just an overview of the March to Summer (so called summer)

: Proffessional clubs returning to training in November playing friendlies in Dec, Jan, Feb to start in Feb

: NCL clubs come back to training in December, play friendlies in Jan, challenge cup in Jan start in February.

: Lets get all the kids back training in Jan (if you can get them back from RU) for friendlies in Jan/Feb to start in March oh and when the weather gets good we will have a six week break.

More or less the same months as before, the July/August is the time people want off and the natural break as before, where as the game started in September in the traditional season, now it stumbles again as most teams stop playing, so we changed for training in the better weather?

But as David Gent said there will be an increase in participation, standards, revenue but the strong will survive

Edited by Defender1

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But the increase has not materialised the NGB gambled on the move to summer .

Soon Sport England will deliver it's latest round of figures based on active participation my guess is it will lead to a further reduction in funding .

So where will the blame fall , on the romantics or the realists who warned of this before the NGB hoodwinked the gullible .

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Dont think you are far off the Mark Taxi, its a pity Phil Hodgson doesn't take some of this to his column in the RL Express to expose some of what is going on

 

Below is an extract from the November 2014 Community Board Minutes, oh and by the way no mention of the Pennine League and a solution to its problems and we all thought their secretary was on the board or is she Chairperson of BARLA?

6.0

2014 PARTICIPATION DATA

Mr Donlon gave a presentation on the Participation Data and APS Predictions; this presentation had also been recently made to Sport England as it is a quarterly requirement.

Mr Donlon confirmed that Sport England had been impressed with the level of insight which the RFL had on the sport and its analysis of the trends within it.

Mr Donlon and Mr Gent summarised by stating that currently the sport is unlikely to achieve the Sport England Active People Survey targets and that this may threaten future funding support. Other sports have been put on notice and in some cases have already had funding reduced.

Ms Morrow asked if monies were taken from the governing body, where would the funding be re-allocated. Mr Gent explained that he thought it unlikely that monies would be re-allocated away from governing bodies as there were no other obvious vehicles for this type of Rugby League delivery.

 

Edited by Defender1

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Wigan St Cuthberts , Hindley , Peterlee and now Ovenden all in the lasts 12 months leaving the NCL so if they are replaced by clubs from other leagues that still is showing a net loss to the game .

Is it a case then off The NCL just painting over the cracks ?

This is not an attack on the NCL but we have to face facts the game is massively struggling at OA ,our OA league in the NW collapsed due to the setting up of the OA summer league so the question is since the switch to summer how many OA players have been lost to the game ?

The RFL can answer that question but will they ?

The switch to summer managed effectively at junior level has shown good growth in the NW but that was a trend evident in the NW any way as we had a winter break .

Sooner or later the NGB will be held accountable if they can't stem the flow , creating hybrids the like of touch and wheelchair will not protect the X111 game our participation will ultimately be judged on .

2005-06 season the NCL lost Cottingham Tigers, Featherstone Lions, Huddersfield Sharks, Walney Central and Hunslet Warriors

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Are you sure on Cottingham dont think they have been in the NCL, they had a summer team before the switch which only lasted a year or two

Yeah definitely sure. Though they pulled out just before that season. They joined the year Thatto Heath did from memory that's 2000. Yeah they played summer as well 2006 in premier north (taking over Hull Phoenix as Cottingham Phoenix) played the start of the national division 2007 before getting the boot for calling off too many games then returned to Yorkshire premier 2009 for one season

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6.0

2014 PARTICIPATION DATA

Mr Donlon gave a presentation on the Participation Data and APS Predictions; this presentation had also been recently made to Sport England as it is a quarterly requirement.

Mr Donlon confirmed that Sport England had been impressed with the level of insight which the RFL had on the sport and its analysis of the trends within it.

Mr Donlon and Mr Gent summarised by stating that currently the sport is unlikely to achieve the Sport England Active People Survey targets and that this may threaten future funding support. Other sports have been put on notice and in some cases have already had funding reduced.

Ms Morrow asked if monies were taken from the governing body, where would the funding be re-allocated. Mr Gent explained that he thought it unlikely that monies would be re-allocated away from governing bodies as there were no other obvious vehicles for this type of Rugby League delivery.

Make no mistake the figures that are set to be released will raise serious concerns regarding the "direction of travel", furthermore it's highly likely the RFL will be hit with a reduction in funding as a result.

The outcome of which is going to be interesting to review based on the decision making process/policy the RFL will look to apply as a result of further cuts in funding should that occur.

I see the phrase "Membership Scheme" on the horizon for the Community game the result of which will no doubt look to fund the entirety of the budget for the Community game services department.

Edited by LordCharles

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Please see an extract from the recent Hull Open age meeting on Operational Rules, Jan 2015, should we sign or should we go?????????

  • (A Hull Club) asked if there were plans to introduce Fees for either players or clubs as signing/registration fees. David Gent said it had been discussed but Martyn Coyd of London said we have RU players playing and they will not pay to play, DG said because of this it was not going to happen and said it had been put to bed he thought Nov-Dec 2013, please note the date of the Community Board minutes below, they appear not to have been discussed at the following community board meeting, or it is not in the minutes

 

MINUTES OF THE COMMUNITY BOARD MEETING

HELD AT CARRWOOD PARK, LEEDS ON WEDNESDAY 30 APRIL 2014

6.0

MEMBERSHIP SCHEME

6.1

Receive a presentation on the progress being made to develop a RFL Membership Scheme.

The Chair welcomed Jon Dutton, who presented his findings so far the on RFL Membership Scheme (presentation attached), his priorities and a stage plan for the future.

The four strategic pillars on which to focus were listed as follows: technology, hearts and minds, benefits and customer focused/participant centred.

Ms Crawshaw asked whether players and registrations are being concentrated on, and also, volunteers. Mr Dutton confirmed that all these areas of the game are being looked into, along with Match Officials.

The Chair asked whether there would be any mileage in working with other partners with successful loyalty programmes, e.g. Tesco. Mr Dutton felt that this was a good idea and he would explore the possibility further with the Commercial Department.

The Board noted the initial progress made on this matter and noted that a further report would be made at the next meeting on the viability of the proposed scheme.

 

I suppose we did sign up to the Operational Rules????????

Edited by Defender1

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Yet another bad advert for winter rugby league this weekend. Bradford and Halifax clubs are going to go about 3 months without a home game at this rate

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Yet another bad advert for winter rugby league this weekend. Bradford and Halifax clubs are going to go about 3 months without a home game at this rate

dont let the facts get in the way on another attack on "winter" rugby.Most teams in Bradford and Halifax have had home games in December and January,despite the bad weather,even teams like Greetland and Queensbury.

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All the more reason to incorporate a winter break into a traditional season it does work we proved it .

Bowes you are becoming extremely tedious we all get it , you point out all the failings of the old winter concept .

The summer playing season fails the game in many areas .

So let's look and answers and clear proposals the NGB has failed to deliver on it's spin and until someone at the top as the balls to admit it then our game is going no where .

The Pro game has looked at it's self and come up with a new concept and that's good for the pro game .

What about the community game ?

Most of their policies damage our game we are spending more time fire fighting than developing and that's no good to man and beast .And that's not just my thoughts but that of many of my fellow volunteers the lifeblood of the game .

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All the more reason to incorporate a winter break into a traditional season it does work we proved it .

Bowes you are becoming extremely tedious we all get it , you point out all the failings of the old winter concept .

The summer playing season fails the game in many areas .

So let's look and answers and clear proposals the NGB has failed to deliver on it's spin and until someone at the top as the balls to admit it then our game is going no where .

The Pro game has looked at it's self and come up with a new concept and that's good for the pro game .

What about the community game ?

Most of their policies damage our game we are spending more time fire fighting than developing and that's no good to man and beast .And that's not just my thoughts but that of many of my fellow volunteers the lifeblood of the game .

There were 10 times as many anti summer posts for a fraction of the number of called off games earlier in the year and you were the 3rd worst offender then

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I have just read on the Pennine league website that players Have got to transfer to the club to play in the challenge cup if they are in the NCL. What happens if a club has got a team in the NCL an also a team in the Pennine? Can that player only play for either the Pennine team or the conference team or both?

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I have just read on the Pennine league website that players Have got to transfer to the club to play in the challenge cup if they are in the NCL. What happens if a club has got a team in the NCL an also a team in the Pennine? Can that player only play for either the Pennine team or the conference team or both?

Rugby League unfortunately continues to find ways to prevent players playing that Rugby Union would be embarrassed to do. Let players play. Politics and small minded committee mon are ruining the game.

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I received an interesting e mail off a league official

 

An hour ago I had Jason Netherton on the phone saying that Mike Smith (Currant HKR CEO) was going to speak in Parliament next Monday about the reduction in the number of teams playing Rugby League and could I provide him with some facts and figures

 

How does David Gent get away with it

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