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walter sobchak

England's 4nations fullback

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Reading all the comments from the warriors fans on LU and Sam tomkins had another mare under the high ball again for the warriors against the roosters. Surely his inconsistent form and fragility under the high ball has to be a worry for McNamara and must put Zak hardaker in pole position for being England's fullback for this years 4nations. I would honestly play Sam tomkins in the halves with widdop, take the pressure off him and let him have free rein in the middle of the pitch.

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I am sure Tomkins had his reasons and money was a big one of those reasons in choosing the Warriors but I think it was a mistake.

 

If he could have gone to a big Sydney based Club he may have been better Coached and blended into a more consistent team than what the Warriors are.

 

By all accounts the Warriors were torn a new one today by the Roosters,  they would have to be the most inconsistent underachievers in the NRL since they were admitted into the competition with the cattle they have and the support of a nation behind them.

 

Tomkins is a reasonable attacking player but not Test quality in defense, in reading the attack, tackling technique or taking the high ball consistently, IMO.

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Reading all the comments from the warriors fans on LU and Sam tomkins had another mare under the high ball again for the warriors against the roosters. Surely his inconsistent form and fragility under the high ball has to be a worry for McNamara and must put Zak hardaker in pole position for being England's fullback for this years 4nations. I would honestly play Sam tomkins in the halves with widdop, take the pressure off him and let him have free rein in the middle of the pitch.

Another mare under the high ball?

He's been very good recently. I wouldn't say he has been any worse or better than most full backs in the NRL. There isn't any full backs who haven't dropped the ball under the high ball this year. I've only watched the highlights of Roosters v Warriors and there was not any tries directly leading from a Tomkins error they were just from paper thin defence.

I agree with Boxhead that he should not of chose the Warriors. You can see how the game is going to go for them in the first 10 minutes. They rely on confidence so much and if they do not have any they get beat. There wasn't much Tomkins could of done about any of the tries - if Sam Moa runs through your first line defence barely touched you're going to struggle to stop him 1 v 1 5m from the line.

He has been fairly good in the NRL this season. He had a very poor start but once he adapted he was very very good and involved in a lot of the good stuff the Warriors played. The defeat to the Knights last week looks like it is going to be a costly one for the Warriors. But regarding the high ball - I really do not think it is that much of an issue anymore.

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* * *RESULT SPOILER INCLUDED* * *

Tomkins didn't have a "mare under the high ball"

The whole Warriors team got blown away by a red hot Roosters team, the bombs that Tomkins didn't catch we're almost impossible because he was generally up against three on rushing Roosters without any support from his own team mates.

Anthony Minichiello dropped a Johnson bomb cold but where's your criticism of him!

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* * *RESULT SPOILER INCLUDED* * *

Tomkins didn't have a "mare under the high ball"

The whole Warriors team got blown away by a red hot Roosters team, the bombs that Tomkins didn't catch we're almost impossible because he was generally up against three on rushing Roosters without any support from his own team mates.

Anthony Minichiello dropped a Johnson bomb cold but where's your criticism of him!

I didn't know minichiello had put his hand up for England selection.

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* * *RESULT SPOILER INCLUDED* * *

Tomkins didn't have a "mare under the high ball"

The whole Warriors team got blown away by a red hot Roosters team, the bombs that Tomkins didn't catch we're almost impossible because he was generally up against three on rushing Roosters without any support from his own team mates.

Anthony Minichiello dropped a Johnson bomb cold but where's your criticism of him!

 

 

I am not sure what 3 defenders coming at him has to do with catching the Ball

About the same as Minichiello being 34 years of age and a veteran in his last year in the NRL and scoring 3 more tries this season than Tomkins the "Gun" English Fullback.  ;)

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I like the idea of Hardaker at 1 and Tomkins at 6 but where are the games to try out this combination? In their wisdom, the planners have not put in a warm-up game and England cannot mess about experimenting with Samoa as last year's friendly with Italy showed.

 

Hardaker looks very assured at full-back and has that direct kick return game. Tomkins is playing more of a half-back role now anyway. I would go Hardaker 1, Tomkins 6, Widdop 7, O'Loughlin 12 and Sinfield 13. Let's face it, Sinfield will be played if he is selected for the tour by McNamara.

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I am not sure what 3 defenders coming at him has to do with catching the Ball

About the same as Minichiello being 34 years of age and a veteran in his last year in the NRL and scoring 3 more tries this season than Tomkins the "Gun" English Fullback.  ;)

 

I assume you watched the game? Warriors first line of defence and protection on kicks was pathetic today. We are having the debate that actually Hardaker may be the best choice at one for the 4N. He is more of an old fashioned custodian full-back with hard kick returns. Why don't you join the debate instead of going for the obvious cheap shots?

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I am not sure what 3 defenders coming at him has to do with catching the Ball

About the same as Minichiello being 34 years of age and a veteran in his last year in the NRL and scoring 3 more tries this season than Tomkins the "Gun" English Fullback. ;)

Tomkins game is about setting up tries hence having the 3rd most try assists out of any full back.

The point about defenders is extremely relevant. The Aussies are the masters of blocking players off. Most full backs will drop a contested bomb when under severe pressure.

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Posted · Hidden by John Drake, August 26, 2014 - No reason given

I assume you watched the game? Warriors first line of defence and protection on kicks was pathetic today. We are having the debate that actually Hardaker may be the best choice at one for the 4N. He is more of an old fashioned custodian full-back with hard kick returns. Why don't you join the debate instead of going for the obvious cheap shots?

 

 

No I have not seen the game.

A fullback can not be taken out whilst playing at the ball.

Why should Tomkins be worried about attacking players in the air.

Didn't Hardaker contribute to the shambles of last years World Cup in England?

Was Hardaker accused of homophobia or something like that?

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Posted · Hidden by John Drake, August 26, 2014 - No reason given

No I have not seen the game.

A fullback can not be taken out whilst playing at the ball.

Why should Tomkins be worried about attacking players in the air.

Didn't Hardaker contribute to the shambles of last years World Cup in England?

Was Hardaker accused of homophobia or something like that?

 

So you didn't see today's game and you haven't seen Hardaker play much this season? Okay. Keep the informed contributions to this thread coming.

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Tomkins game is about setting up tries hence having the 3rd most try assists out of any full back.

The point about defenders is extremely relevant. The Aussies are the masters of blocking players off. Most full backs will drop a contested bomb when under severe pressure.

Tomkins is according to NRL stats

Not in the top 20 Try scorers

15th  in Try assists

Not in the top 20 line breaks.

9th in line break assists

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Posted · Hidden by John Drake, August 26, 2014 - No reason given

So you didn't see today's game and you haven't seen Hardaker play much this season? Okay. Keep the informed contributions to this thread coming.

The biggest game in the North was not shown on Australian TV so it was difficult to see,

I don't care what Hardaker has done this season, I have see his form last year where he played up in the England Camp and his homophobic behaviour this year,

He is all class they say.......

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Tomkins is according to NRL stats

Not in the top 20 Try scorers

15th  in Try assists

Not in the top 20 line breaks.

9th in line break assists

There you go again with your facts, don't you realize that Sam tomkins is beyond criticism by some on here.

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Posted · Hidden by John Drake, August 26, 2014 - No reason given

The biggest game in the North was not shown on Australian TV so it was difficult to see,

I don't care what Hardaker has done this season, I have see his form last year where he played up in the England Camp and his homophobic behaviour this year,

He is all class they say.

You should change your fanboy avatar to Sam Burgess again.

 

Yeah yeah. Hardaker did not play for England in a competitive game last year so where did you see him? So season form doesn't matter then? Get you on the selection panel.

 

This debate is whether Hardaker is worth his shot at 1 over Tomkins due to his form over 2014. You haven't seen him so can't comment. I think he is because he has been sensational in 'all' the games I've seen. Pick another thread for mundane comments.

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Posted · Hidden by John Drake, August 26, 2014 - No reason given

There you go again with your facts, don't you realize that Sam tomkins is beyond criticism by some on here.

Tomkins could have done really well in a big Sydney Club, going to the Warriors was always going to be dicey.

Nearly every Australian NRL fan hates the game they play against the Warriors because they don't rate them, care about them or even know why they are in the NRL.

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Posted · Hidden by John Drake, August 26, 2014 - No reason given

Yeah yeah. Hardaker did not play for England in a competitive game last year so where did you see him? So season form doesn't matter then? Get you on the selection panel.

 

This debate is whether Hardaker is worth his shot at 1 over Tomkins due to his form over 2014. You haven't seen him so can't comment. I think he is because he has been sensational in 'all' the games I've seen. Pick another thread for mundane comments.

 

 

I don't know, you tell me.

He did things that led to his exclusion in the England team didn't he? 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/nov/06/zak-hardaker-incident-england-withdrawal-world-cup

 

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jun/10/zak-hardaker-leeds-five-match-ban-homophobic-abuse

 

Is he related to you?

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Posted · Hidden by John Drake, August 26, 2014 - No reason given

I don't know, you tell me.

He did things that led to his exclusion in the England team didn't he? 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/nov/06/zak-hardaker-incident-england-withdrawal-world-cup

 

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jun/10/zak-hardaker-leeds-five-match-ban-homophobic-abuse

 

Is he related to you?

 

No I'm not, this is infantile stuff. All I have tried to do is stay on debate. Hardaker has been disciplined and banned and served a suspension etc. Is that all you are able to comment on about this fella?

 

He is playing some of his career-best football at the moment and is probably what England need at the minute - safe defensively sound full-back who runs the ball back hard. I am a massive Tomkins fan and have seen every game he has played this year - but I would have Hardaker at full-back for games in the 4N.

 

You wouldn't be able to comment on his form as you haven't seen him play. This is a footballing debate for eligible England players.

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There you go again with your facts, don't you realize that Sam tomkins is beyond criticism by some on here.

Narrow it to full backs and it gives you a better indication on how he is doing. 4th most line break assists and 4th most try assists out of any full back. He's done that in an extremely inconsistent side whilst in his first season in the NRL.

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I don't mind, as they can both do a job. I would hesitate to pick Hardaker for a tour though given his appalling behaviour over the last 12 months.

Sam is still an international class 1. I think he'd be better playing in the halves though, but it doesn't matter so much of he gets involved enough. I have seen no evidence that he has got his explosive speed back and doubt he ever will, so becoming a good play maker is what the future holds for him.

I don't think he can do no wrong but he has already done wonderful things and, before his speed went, he was the finest British full back I have seen.

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Where and why did his speed go, can't say I've read or heard of any injury which might have caused him to lose speed

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The biggest game in the North was not shown on Australian TV so it was difficult to see,

I don't care what Hardaker has done this season, I have see his form last year where he played up in the England Camp and his homophobic behaviour this year,

He is all class they say.......

Yes it was. It was live on Eurosport on foxtel.

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Reading all the comments from the warriors fans on LU and Sam tomkins had another mare under the high ball again for the warriors against the roosters. Surely his inconsistent form and fragility under the high ball has to be a worry for McNamara and must put Zak hardaker in pole position for being England's fullback for this years 4nations. I would honestly play Sam tomkins in the halves with widdop, take the pressure off him and let him have free rein in the middle of the pitch.

I posted that he was weak under a high ball in the WC and that Escare, Russell and Milford wee equally as good in that tournament defensivly and was laughed off the board. I said he would be found out in the NRL and was again roundly criticised. It seems like all his chicken are coming home to roost.

I take no pleasure in being right,but moving him to fullback was a coaching mistake. He should have remained in the halves his attacking g genius could have free reign without the problems of having to deal with high balls.

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Yes it was. It was live on Eurosport on foxtel.

 

Only 28% of Australians can be arsed to pay the exorbitant fees of cable TV.

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Only 28% of Australians can be arsed to pay the exorbitant fees of cable TV.

You don't want to know the % of people in the uk that can watch the NRL grand final and state of origin.

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