AiredaleMike Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 It appears from my experience that we are going down the road of increasing segregation in RL. Away games at Wakefield and Castleford are fantastic for allowing the fans to mix, and at my teams' ground, Headingley, fans can mix - if they want to, but unfortunately not many do. I often make the effort to stand on the Western Terrace to mix with away fans, as I enjoy the banter. The same goes for away games, as I have met many great fans at Widnes, Bradford and Castleford. I like some, are not overtly tribal, although of course I wear my colours with pride and shout encouragement accordingly. The tribal response tends to be to congregate with the same fans, often in a designated 'away end'. Now, I don't criticise those fans who prefer this option, although it often means they end up behind the sticks, and therefore have an inferior view. But importantly, they also miss out on the opportunity to chat with other fans, and miss a bonding opportunity. A recent experience with an away game at Salford, resulted in the purchase of a ticket in the 'un-reserved' seats along the side, only to be segregated-off by the Stewards into a third of the stand at one end. Any chance of mixing and sharing banter with the Home fans was therefore lost, and who benefits from this ? The Stewards were clearly under instructions to segregate fans, why ? Are they really worried that these fans, mainly families and over 50's would run riot and start fights with the Home fans ? I think that many clubs are run to be over safety-conscious, and allowing mixing of fans could be a risk, and I think that that is a sad disposition to have. RL is different from football, in that we don't have many tribal nutters, off the pitch at least. We are distinct from football fans, as we generally have an understanding ethos among fans, based on mutual acceptance, and tolerance. My questions are; 1. Do other fans experience forced segregation at games ? and if so what are your experiences ? 2. If fans don't experience this, or prefer to stand with others wearing the same colours, what are your motives for doing so ? Intelligent response most welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padge Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Never come across forced segregation at any ground, I don't really know what your point is. Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007 Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king" This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red John Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Are you sure your experience at Salford was because of segregation and not because you're going into a seated stand alongside season ticket holders who have purchased particular seats? I've occasionally seen fans of other clubs sitting in the main West Stand, and I presume they've bought allocated tickets for the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AiredaleMike Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 Hi Red John, The stand opposite the main stand. Apparently some Home Season Ticket Holders were actually displaced by Stewards, to allow for away fans to be placed in that area. I believe that this is not a one-off, as TV pictures of Salford V Warrington/Wigan also showed this segregation, at a similar point in the stand. Hi Padge - the point is 'forced-segregation' as opposed to 'voluntary segregation'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red John Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Hi Red John, The stand opposite the main stand. Apparently some Home Season Ticket Holders were actually displaced by Stewards, to allow for away fans to be placed in that area. I believe that this is not a one-off, as TV pictures of Salford V Warrington/Wigan also showed this segregation, at a similar point in the stand. I wasn't aware of season ticket holders having to move, but that may have been the case. I wouldn't class it as forced segregation, though, since there is no barrier separating that area from the rest of the stand and therefore nothing to stop you moving across. It may just be that that is the designated 'unreserved' area, and had you bought an allocated ticket, you'd have been able to sit with the Salford fans. As I say, this seems to be what happens in the West Stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintslass Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Hi Red John, The stand opposite the main stand. Apparently some Home Season Ticket Holders were actually displaced by Stewards, to allow for away fans to be placed in that area. I believe that this is not a one-off, as TV pictures of Salford V Warrington/Wigan also showed this segregation, at a similar point in the stand. Hi Padge - the point is 'forced-segregation' as opposed to 'voluntary segregation'. Saints do something similar in their seated stands in that the away supporters who want to sit down are given tickets in the blocks closest to the away end. Likewise when those clubs who bring very few supporters come to town and the away end isn't opened, the supporters will be seated in the block closest to the away end. It creates a better atmosphere to have away supporters together although away supporters can buy tickets anywhere, if they so choose. Not many appear to do so though except when we are close to capacity, ie on Good Friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff9of13 Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 I wouldn't really class any of the examples here as proper segregation, unless fans were also stopped from mixing in the concourse areas and outside the ground in the same way as other sports. Like Saintslass says, I think it is merely an attempt to group fans together in the stadium to try and maximise the atmosphere. Whether it works or not is another matter. "it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AiredaleMike Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 Red John - With regards to the West stand at Salford, I bought a ticket for 'un-reserved seating' at the ticket office, I was then told that it wasn't un-reserved seating in that stand, I then asked for a ticket on the half-way line and they allocated me a ticket, with a ticket numbered at one end, which was segregated for away supporters. I was told, politely, I may add, by a steward to sit in my allocated seat. Perhaps I made the mistake of having club colours showing ! perhaps next time I will hide the colours, although I would question why the club felt it necessary to allocate me into an area I chose not to want to go to. Saintslass - Are away fans allocated in a seat in the block(s) closest to the away terrace, or are they given a choice (if they declare club allegiance or not) ? Griff9of13 - Are you suggesting that 'proper' segregation is a physical barrier with police/stewards restricting movement across it ? Do you feel that fans should be given the choice of where to sit/stand in a stadium ? I agree with you that if fans want to 'maximise the atmosphere' in a stadium, then they should of course be at liberty to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintslass Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Saintslass - Are away fans allocated in a seat in the block(s) closest to the away terrace, or are they given a choice (if they declare club allegiance or not) ? Yes they are allocated seats in those blocks but obviously if they don't declare then they could end up anywhere but why would they want to sit among the home fans? I wouldn't want to. I'd want to be with my own supporters making noise. Fans aren't segregated at Saints in the way fans are segregated at soccer matches, ie to avoid trouble. But if the fans do declare who they support then they are allocated seats in the blocks at the away end of the ground (which are unallocated seating so they can sit wherever they like in those blocks). Unfortunately our wonderful concourse which is almost continuous is sectioned off for matches but that has nothing to do with away and home fans mixing. It was a condition of our safety certificate as some stupid Saints fans in the seated stands decided they all fancied trying out the standing West Stand during the first game of the first season we were in the ground and that overloaded the West Stand. I could have cursed them because the idea McManus had was that fans from one stand could meet up with friends or family from another during halftime. That works in an all seated stadium but alas not in a partially seated ones as you get some twits spoiling it all for everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krytensmate Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 New stadiums will bring in segregation , that's just the way it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AiredaleMike Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 Krytensmate - New stadiums do not necessarily need to bring in segregation, the issue would be how the stadium is managed and whether the Owners want fans to mix or not. But for fans to mix, they have to show willing. My concern would be that there is not this general will to want to mix, from both Home and Away fans, and therefore stadium owners will choose to endorse segregation by default anyway, and of course this will be driven by the requirements and desires of the Safety Officer for the Stadium. The result will be football style segregation, and growth of a 'them and us' mentality, much to my dismay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Collins Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Like Saintslass says, I think it is merely an attempt to group fans together in the stadium to try and maximise the atmosphere. Whether it works or not is another matter.This was mooted in RU in an attempt to improve the dead atmosphere and "engineer rivalry" by separating the fans. The problem is if the rivalry is not there you can't manufacture it.I've asked this before if there is rivalry in RL. It appears there isn't enough to warrant segregation. It's a shame as well as atmosphere and publicity it generates, rivalry brings an added x factor. For example, the amount of people I've heard say they want to experience a Celtic-Rangers game just for the rivalry. People that don't even know much about sport are drawn in to the tribalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluded pom? Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Last time I went to see Hull play at Headingley it threw it down so we attempted to get cover in the South stand only to be refused by stewards despite there still being plenty of room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krytensmate Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Last time I went to see Hull play at Headingley it threw it down so we attempted to get cover in the South stand only to be refused by stewards despite there still being plenty of room. That's because Headingley is a dump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughyedspud Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Nowt wrong with segregation imo.. OLDHAM RLFC the 8TH most successful team in british RL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintslass Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 New stadiums will bring in segregation , that's just the way it is Not at all. As I explained, at Saints' new stadium the concourse segregation came about because some Saints fans were dumb and ruined the plan for everyone, moving from the seated stands into the West Stand coz they fancied a change in the second half, overloading the West Stand. So Saints were told by H&S they had to segregate the concourse, limiting fans to their allocated stands. But until this season Salford, for example, didn't bring enough fans to make opening the East Stand financially viable. Salford fans in those earlier matches were allocated the blocks closest to the East Stand (away end) but they were all still in the North Stand and so free to mix with Saints fans during halftime. Other new stadia may segregate fans simply because they are all seated with separate stands, not linked by a continuous concourse like the one at Langtree Park but I've yet to experience segregation per se at any rugby league match I've been to, regardless of the age or size or configuration of the stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREPOSTEROUS Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Bizarrely segregation was brought back to BV with the visit of Salford last week. The two clubs don't have any sort of rivalry or history of trouble and the crowd was pretty meagre so it was a strange choice of match to bring it back after a two seasons of letting it go. I do prefer it though, it does generate better atmosphere when groups of supporters congregate and sing/chant as one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 There is an away end at Warrington and imo it helps the atmosphere. That said, Wire fans can go in there if they like, and away fans coul just go aand buy a ticket for another stand if they wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red John Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Red John - With regards to the West stand at Salford, I bought a ticket for 'un-reserved seating' at the ticket office, I was then told that it wasn't un-reserved seating in that stand, I then asked for a ticket on the half-way line and they allocated me a ticket, with a ticket numbered at one end, which was segregated for away supporters. I was told, politely, I may add, by a steward to sit in my allocated seat. Perhaps I made the mistake of having club colours showing ! perhaps next time I will hide the colours, although I would question why the club felt it necessary to allocate me into an area I chose not to want to go to. I'm certain that there is no formal segregation at Salford. As with other stadiums, there is a de facto away end, but you can buy tickets for any stand. It looks like someone just made a mistake in your case. Ticketing and stewarding at Salford is handled by the stadium management company, and, unfortunately, the staff there have to have their backsides and elbows clearly labelled to aid accurate differentiation. Bizarrely segregation was brought back to BV with the visit of Salford last week. The two clubs don't have any sort of rivalry or history of trouble and the crowd was pretty meagre so it was a strange choice of match to bring it back after a two seasons of letting it go. I do prefer it though, it does generate better atmosphere when groups of supporters congregate and sing/chant as one. They didn't enforce it though. A number of us went into the Wakefield end to escape the rain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweaty craiq Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Bizarrely segregation was brought back to BV with the visit of Salford last week. The two clubs don't have any sort of rivalry or history of trouble and the crowd was pretty meagre so it was a strange choice of match to bring it back after a two seasons of letting it go. I do prefer it though, it does generate better atmosphere when groups of supporters congregate and sing/chant as one. They tried to bring it in for the Leigh CC game after selling us general admission tickets, you told us to enter via the side and tried to stop fans entering from behind the sticks. It went pear shaped because the turnstyles couldnt cope and great banter was enjoyed as a consequence. It is logical when you have a modern stadia to allocate an away end if the support warrants it, and for the Wire QF on saturday we have the west stand and seated tickets closest to it but you can buy tickets for anywhere if you wish. Keeping a large away following together, which they would do anyway, creates a much better atmosphere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 widnes have segregation mainly because some of our fans are complete door handles "Why is Napoleon crying ?" said one sailor to the other, "poor ###### thinks he's being exiled to st helens" came the reply. https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1455957_262746450543197_276002364_n.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WakefieldCityLoyal Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Most clubs have away stands/ terraces now the western terrace has been the away terrace at Belle Vue for about 3 years now. I like the set up where the more rowdy element of support is kept apart it's safer easier to steward and less chance of trouble and fines. Especially us as I think we have s suspended fine so can't risk trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Omally Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I actually enjoy the "banter" you get at RL games and the fact that you can freely mix with each other, free from the threat of violence. You'll always get the occasional bell-end who has had too much booze, but normally it's good natured stuff and it would be a shame if segregation was to be introduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff9of13 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 widnes have segregation mainly because some of our fans are complete door handles I actually enjoy the "banter" you get at RL games and the fact that you can freely mix with each other, free from the threat of violence. You'll always get the occasional bell-end who has had too much booze, but normally it's good natured stuff and it would be a shame if segregation was to be introduced. Maybe it's a sign I'm getting old, but there does seem to be more of these sort of people not just at RL games but everywhere you go. The last couple of large stadium gigs I have been to have been disrupted by these types; more interested in seeing how much overpriced, nasty booze they can guzzle down than what is happening on the stage. Rant over. "it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Willow Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 The middle block of the East Stand at Salford is allocated to season ticket holders. Away fans are usually sent to the end nearest to the North Stand. This was adopted after Hull KR fans sat in the seats reserved by Season Ticket holders and ST holders had to sit elsewhere. I pay for my ticket in advance and choose to sit on the half way line. it seems reasonable that at first visitors are asked to sit elsewhere. I don't have a problem with free movement once the game is underway though. I have sat with away fans in many games in that stand without issue. Lets face it the ground is nver full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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