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John Drake

Jeremy Corbyn & the Labour Party

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It also showed that they don't all vote the way grumpy old men think they will.

 

 

which is JohnM's main fear, that they'll vote for someone, anyone, apart from his beloved tories

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 He thinks that they'll all vote for him because they don't know any better. Its called Jezza-mandering.  He'll have his work cut out as if you are old enough to vote at 16, there are lots of other things you are old enough to do, too. You don't here the Jezza-belles and Jezza-boys shouting about these though.

 

Firstly, you can't get married at 16 without parental consent. How repressive and unfair is that?

 

They can't join the armed forces without parental consent, either. Plain wrong.

 

so if   these "young children" are old enough to work, pay tax, pay NI contributions, get married, etc etc etc  why shouldn't they be able to drive a car or motorcycle?

 

so if   these "young children" are old enough to work, pay tax, pay NI contributions, get married, etc etc etc  why shouldn't they be able to sue or be sued?

 

so if   these "young children" are old enough to work, pay tax, pay NI contributions, get married, etc etc etc  why shouldn't they be able to open a bank account in thier own names?

 

so if   these "young children" are old enough to work, pay tax, pay NI contributions, get married, etc etc etc  why shouldn't they be able to perform professionally abroad?

 

so if   these "young children" are old enough to work, pay tax, pay NI contributions, get married, etc etc etc  why shouldn't they be able to serve on a jury?

 

so if   these "young children" are old enough to work, pay tax, pay NI contributions, get married, etc etc etc  why shouldn't they be able to get a tattoo?

 

so if   these "young children" are old enough to work, pay tax, pay NI contributions, get married, etc etc etc  why shouldn't they be able to buy cigarettes and tobacco

 

so if   these "young children" are old enough to work, pay tax, pay NI contributions, get married, etc etc etc  why shouldn't they be able to buy and drink alcohol in a bar

 

so if   these "young children" are old enough to work, pay tax, pay NI contributions, get married, etc etc etc  why shouldn't they be able to uy fireworks

 

so if   these "young children" are old enough to work, pay tax, pay NI contributions, get married, etc etc etc  why shouldn't they be able to pawn items in a pawn shop

 

so if   these "young children" are old enough to work, pay tax, pay NI contributions, get married, etc etc etc  why shouldn't they be able to make a Will

 

so if   these "young children" are old enough to work, pay tax, pay NI contributions, get married, etc etc etc  why shouldn't they be able to carry an organ donor card

 

so if   these "young children" are old enough to work, pay tax, pay NI contributions, get married, etc etc etc  why shouldn't they be able to own land, buy a house or flat & apply for a mortgage

 

 

so if   these "young children" are old enough to work, pay tax, pay NI contributions, get married, etc etc etc  why shouldn't they be able to drive lorries between 3500kg and 7500kg with a trailer up to 750kg (with the appropriate licence)

 

all valid points

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which is JohnM's main fear, that they'll vote for someone, anyone, apart from his beloved tories

 

But quite a few will.

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But quite a few will.

And, as the Scottish referendum showed, that's fair enough, their choice of who to vote for.  Engage them effectively while still youths and they'll carry that into adulthood.

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But quite a few will.

 

 

that's their choice, fair enough

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Only heard bits of his speach today on the news, but look forward to watching it in full. 

 

There seems to be a certain arrogance on the right and even within his own MPs that he won't go well in 2020, but if up against Osbourne I think he'll suprise more than a few.  Not sure how he'll fare against May or Boris, but against Osbourne I reckon he'll go well.

 

Will also be interesting to see how the Labour party membership reacts, given his overwhelming mandate he has from the party membership if Labour MPs start to undermine him, do the membership have the power to deselect sitting MPs?

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But quite a few will.

The sensible ones, of course.

Corbyn is right, of course, in saying that the values he holds dear are shared by the public. Of course they are, by people of the left, by people of the centre like me, and by people of the right. The voters will not be fooled by his attempt to hijack them for Labour.

Having made that clear, i'd say that he's made a good start as The Great Leader. He should not listen to the critics within. its five years to the next election, so no need to be rushed into manifesto committments and no need for the media to criticise him. There's plenty of time for that later.

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Only heard bits of his speach today on the news, but look forward to watching it in full. 

 

There seems to be a certain arrogance on the right and even within his own MPs that he won't go well in 2020, but if up against Osbourne I think he'll suprise more than a few.  Not sure how he'll fare against May or Boris, but against Osbourne I reckon he'll go well.

 

Will also be interesting to see how the Labour party membership reacts, given his overwhelming mandate he has from the party membership if Labour MPs start to undermine him, do the membership have the power to deselect sitting MPs?

That speech was designed purely to whip up the emotions of the left wing of the labour party, which it did extreemly well.

It was full of hot air & rhetoric with absolutely no substance. Lots of big statements about change and promises af this, that and the other but no explanation of how they will do them or more importantly how they will be paid for.

 

Until he sets out exactly how he will achieve these things and tells the public how it will affect them, no-one outside the left wing of his own party will take him seriously. At the moment they're just the rantings of a scruffy, left wing loonie.

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It was full of hot air & rhetoric with absolutely no substance. 

So unlike any other leaders speech made at a party conference then..............!!!

 

Like I say, I'll watch it with interest, I'm no supporter of his, nor do I consider myself to be a "leftie" but I do take in interest in the direction he's dragging politics in being totally dispondent with any of the alternatives on offer.

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That speech was designed purely to whip up the emotions of the left wing of the labour party, which it did extreemly well.

It was full of hot air & rhetoric with absolutely no substance. Lots of big statements about change and promises af this, that and the other but no explanation of how they will do them or more importantly how they will be paid for.

 

Until he sets out exactly how he will achieve these things and tells the public how it will affect them, no-one outside the left wing of his own party will take him seriously. At the moment they're just the rantings of a scruffy, left wing loonie.

 

At this stage, just over two weeks into the job and four and a half years from the next general election, I'd have been amazed had there been any detail behind his aimes. He is attempting to realign his party after almost 20 years of the previous regime. That can't happen overnight, and whether it is successful or not only time will tell. The only thing you can be sure of is the two weeks is nowhere near enough time to make that call.

 

As for your last comment, Boris wears the finest Savile Row can offer, but he still looks like he's slept in them, but his political ability is never judged on his dress sense. :rolleyes:

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As for your last comment, Boris wears the finest Savile Row can offer, but he still looks like he's slept in them, but his political ability is never judged on his dress sense. :rolleyes:

Boris looks like he's been dressed by a charity shop in Kensington, Corbyn looks like he's been dressed by a charity shop on a council estate slum.

 

God help us all if either of them ever gets to lead this country !

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Boris looks like he's been dressed by a charity shop in Kensington, Corbyn looks like he's been dressed by a charity shop on a council estate slum.

God help us all if either of them ever gets to lead this country !

So basically, you judge people on what they look like? Edited by St Reatham

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Right... I've just done a trawl of the media on Corbyn's speech and it seems like a number of the more right wing ones are against him because he said words.  He apparently said things that were said in the 1980s or rejected by the 1980s.  He was criticised roundly for both saying too little and saying too much.  He didn't have a robust, concrete plan for EVERYTHING therefore deserves to be utterly discredited.  He was criticised for being autocratic and also criticised for delegating policy to the party.  He was criticised for trying to force Labour MPs to go his way or be deselected and also criticised for allowing MPs to speak out against his views.  He was criticised for being anti-Trident but also criticised for appointing a shadow Defence Minister who said she intended to campaign to keep Trident.

 

99% of the drivel written about Corbyn was written in advance with a few chosen words from the speech added then published.  In other words, editorialised opinion to suit the newspapers' owners opinion and barely a bit of actual news in it.

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Seriously, I think Jezza is doing OK. Clearly I don't agree with his views, policies, philosophy, taste in wimmin on the side  etc, but if he can do away with the forced adulation that conference attendees ( especially power tripping Blair babes and Jezza  belles)  heap on the party bosses and the fawning hero worship and hem-touching that goes with it - "the King is Dead....Long Live the King", he might win over a few doubters.

 

No need to analyse what went wrong for Labour, no need to apologise for anything. Just take your time to find out what the individual party members and the £3 proles want, then formulate policy and present it to the electorate in due course - the earliest opportunity being next May's council elections. That would be the honest way to do it.  So THAT won't happen.

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Right... I've just done a trawl of the media on Corbyn's speech and it seems like a number of the more right wing ones are against him because he said words.  He apparently said things that were said in the 1980s or rejected by the 1980s.  He was criticised roundly for both saying too little and saying too much.  He didn't have a robust, concrete plan for EVERYTHING therefore deserves to be utterly discredited.  He was criticised for being autocratic and also criticised for delegating policy to the party.  He was criticised for trying to force Labour MPs to go his way or be deselected and also criticised for allowing MPs to speak out against his views.  He was criticised for being anti-Trident but also criticised for appointing a shadow Defence Minister who said she intended to campaign to keep Trident.

 

99% of the drivel written about Corbyn was written in advance with a few chosen words from the speech added then published.  In other words, editorialised opinion to suit the newspapers' owners opinion and barely a bit of actual news in it.

 

Ain't that just typical of the Guardian, Independent, Mirror, New Statesman and Tribune!

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Ain't that just typical of the Guardian, Independent, Mirror, New Statesman and Tribune!

Absolutely, they're just as bad when certain Tories speak.  It sells newspapers though and gets clickbait reads therefore more ad revenue.

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99% of the drivel written about Corbyn was written in advance with a few chosen words from the speech added then published.  In other words, editorialised opinion to suit the newspapers' owners opinion and barely a bit of actual news in it.

 

Indeed. Most were a political version of This

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Leaders' conference speeches rarely if ever go into fine detail. Suddenly it's an issue. They are usually a broad statement, combined with putdowns of the opposing parties, plus a few grandstanding soundbites to get the audience up on their feet applauding on a regular basis.

 

Corbyn's going to be putting various policies to the party vote too, so it is too early for him to commit on those areas. It'll be a while 'til we know how unelectable he actually is.

Edited by Futtocks

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So basically, you judge people on what they look like?

 

Sadly, the world does work a little bit like that. First impressions absolutely count and that usually is when you first set eyes on someone. If you look scruffy, immediately a person will make an initial judgment on you. I am not suggesting that is right but it certainly happens in my experience.

 

Absolutely, they're just as bad when certain Tories speak.  It sells newspapers though and gets clickbait reads therefore more ad revenue.

 

I stated earlier in the thread that there are prejudice and arrogance on both sides of the political spectrum; the media are the worst for it!

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So basically, you judge people on what they look like?

Yes, and thats a perfectly natural human reaction.

 

If someone turned up to a professional job interview (which essentaially Corby is as labour leader now, every time he speaks its like an interview for the PM's job) dressed in scruffy clothes, looking unwashed, it immedietly makes me think they have little pride in their appearance and are unprofessional. Straight away they would have to work a lot harder at the interview than somone who turned up smartly dressed.

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He was criticised for trying to force Labour MPs to go his way or be deselected

Given he's voted against his own party over 500 times it does smack of being a bit hypocritical. If other leaders had gone down this route Corbyn would have been deselected years ago.

So this does kind of make him look like a complete ar**

Edited by Saint Toppy

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Given he's voted against his own party over 500 times it does smack of being a bit hypocritical. If other leaders had gone down this route Corbyn would have been deselected years ago.

So this does kind of make him look like a complete ar**

Pity he's never said that or even hinted it though, all a bit of a lie really by our wonderful media.

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It's well accepted that The Tory Party is the nasty party ,so after this week we can refer to The Labour Party led by Jeremy Corbyn as the Nice party the represents human decency ?

 

On that point I was very glad to see Corbyn telling his followers to cut out the misogyny.

 

Some of the comments that were aimed by his supporters at the two female candidates during the leadership campaign, particularly at Liz Kendall, would make anyone squirm.

 

I hope they will now do as he says.

 

It was also good to see him make some nice comments about Kendall in particular, for whom he seems to have developed quite an admiration.

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