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marklaspalmas

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I know there's a history thread somewhere but still......

 

I was thinking about how many different NU/RFL member clubs there have been since 1895. The number I have come up with is 86. I had a couple of questions though.

 

1. Is Bradford Northern 1907 considered to be a continuation of the old Braford club that switched to soccer (Bradford PA)?

 

2. Is the current Castleford club a continuation of the old 1896-1906 Castleford club?

 

Thanks.

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Rothmans RL Yearbook 1982-83 describe Bradford Northern (and Hunslet) as surviving changes. In the club section it identifies the clubs first season as 1895-96 as Bradford. Disbanded and became Bradford Northern in 1907-08. The Guinness RL Fact book also highlights the first season as 1895.

Cas on the other hand are described in The Grounds of Rugby League as the original club 1895 - 1907 and the present club as a junior club 1912 onwards.

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I know there's a history thread somewhere but still......

 

I was thinking about how many different NU/RFL member clubs there have been since 1895. The number I have come up with is 86. I had a couple of questions though.

 

1. Is Bradford Northern 1907 considered to be a continuation of the old Braford club that switched to soccer (Bradford PA)?

 

2. Is the current Castleford club a continuation of the old 1896-1906 Castleford club?

 

Thanks.

 

Weren't there hundreds of NU clubs to begin with, though presumably only the senior clubs got to vote?

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All clubs by good historians are considered a continuation of 'new' clubs if there is a link to the previous club.

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The tricky one is whether to include the Lancashire and Yorkshire second competitions as they had a playoff for promotion to the senior competition.

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Can I ask the OP what is his real point?

 

These sort of threads usually have a tongue pulling "told you so" pathetic background.

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The tricky one is whether to include the Lancashire and Yorkshire second competitions as they had a playoff for promotion to the senior competition.

 

I think I did include sides from those comps.

 

Sorry edit. I think I included sides from those comps (1896 to 1901) when there were two separate competitions not one unified league.

Edited by marklaspalmas

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Weren't there hundreds of NU clubs to begin with, though presumably only the senior clubs got to vote?

 

Yes by NU member clubs I meant senior clubs.

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All clubs by good historians are considered a continuation of 'new' clubs if there is a link to the previous club.

 

IVe read that a couple of times and I dont know what you mean.

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Can I ask the OP what is his real point?

 

These sort of threads usually have a tongue pulling "told you so" pathetic background.

 

After 12,000 + posts you don't know enough about me to make a value call on my motive for posting? Sheesh.

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I think I did include sides from those comps.

Sorry edit. I think I included sides from those comps (1896 to 1901) when there were two separate competitions not one unified league.

There was one season where they had the northern league on top of a Lancashire and Yorkshire senior league and you may have that year. I've never found out the line up for one season of the Yorkshire Second competition. Lancashire it is well recorded

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After 12,000 + posts you don't know enough about me to make a value call on my motive for posting? Sheesh.

 

And you have been on here long enough to know that the questions raised have been answered time and time again.

 

Sheesh indeed

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There was one season where they had the northern league on top of a Lancashire and Yorkshire senior league and you may have that year. I've never found out the line up for one season of the Yorkshire Second competition. Lancashire it is well recorded

 

Yes, that's the 1901/2 season I think. Ive included teams from those leagues in that year.

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And you have been on here long enough to know that the questions raised have been answered time and time again.

 

Sheesh indeed

 

Im sorry I simply do not understand your attitude and posts on here. Have I offended you on another thread?

 

I found your first post didn't make any sense and politely tried to say so.

 

I found your second to be puzzling, vaguely patronising and unnecessary.

 

DItto your third.

 

I really haven't seen these two points over-covered on here recently. I'd be happy if you dug out the relevant threads.

 

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Rothmans RL Yearbook 1982-83 describe Bradford Northern (and Hunslet) as surviving changes. In the club section it identifies the clubs first season as 1895-96 as Bradford. Disbanded and became Bradford Northern in 1907-08. The Guinness RL Fact book also highlights the first season as 1895.

Cas on the other hand are described in The Grounds of Rugby League as the original club 1895 - 1907 and the present club as a junior club 1912 onwards.

 

Yes, I can see the logic of the bradford continous line.

 

I reread Trevor Delaney recently and had always assumed Castleford were two separate clubs, but perhaps that is not so. The original Castleford club dropped out in 1906 but the book iIm sure (I dont have it to hand) used the phrase reformed in 1912, albeit as a junior club.

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What was the position of Whitehaven Recreation?

One of the junior/amateur clubs of the area, don't think they have a direct link to the current Whitehaven RLFC

With the Whitehaven ground being called the Recreation Ground, then google searches don't bring much up on the junior club, the pro club dominating the search but I did find this - https://www.sportspages.com/product/baines_well_played_whitehaven_recreation_4864

 

Poster 'Bowes' probably knows a lot more on the subject

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There was a small Cumberland Senior League in the early days above the Cumberland League. I haven't got much information on it to hand but I do know one of these leagues had a team from Wallsend in around this time. Whitehaven Recreation were in one of these leagues, but I forget which

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Actually managed to locate some information. The initial Cumberland Senior League season was 1899/1900 and featured Brookland Rovers, Maryport, Seaton, Whitehaven, Whitehaven Rec and Workington.

 

Neither Whitehaven nor Workington were the current team. Millom joined the Northern Union earlier and played in Lancashire starting off in the second competition before beating Morecambe in a play off to move up to the senior competition

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Actually managed to locate some information. The initial Cumberland Senior League season was 1899/1900 and featured Brookland Rovers, Maryport, Seaton, Whitehaven, Whitehaven Rec and Workington.

 

Neither Whitehaven nor Workington were the current team. Millom joined the Northern Union earlier and played in Lancashire starting off in the second competition before beating Morecambe in a play off to move up to the senior competition

In June 1898 a meeting was convened during which the Northern Rugby Football Union came into being in Cumberland comprising of Millom, Workington, Maryport, Wath Brow and Brookland Rovers.

During the following 1898-99 season Whitehaven, Whitehaven Recs and Seaton also came over from Rugby Union. 

 

From the Seaton website,Cumberland senior (called junior on the website) league seemed to start in 1898 and Millom and Wath Brow  were amongst the founder clubs .Millom won the first "Shield" competition beating Seaton in the final in the  1898/99 season a photo of the Seaton team still hangs in the club house.

 

Millom claim to be the oldest amateur RL club in the world and were formed in 1873

 

Sorry about the colours but I cut and pasted from the site and cant get rid if the back ground colour !!!

Edited by yanto

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Millom and Wath Brow switched then but didn't enter the league. Millom went into the Lancashire Second Competition but I'm guessing Wath Brow must have played Cumberland Junior League or something

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Start again in normal colour ;-)

Wath Brow were a union club that folded in 1895 and it wasnt unitl 1898 they reformed as a NU club but only lasted until 1904 before folding once again.

In 1920 they came back as Wath Brow Hornets Northern Union Club but again folded due to the war in 1939.

It was not until 1950 the Wath Brow Hornets ARLC that is still going today started.

 

The Cumberland League has been in existence, in one form or another, since 1899. Millom, in 1897, was the first club in the county to defect from rugby union to Northern Union, they were followed a year later by Workington, Maryport, Whitehaven, Seaton, Brookland Rovers and Wath Brow. The first three named joined with Lancaster and the Furness clubs Barrow, Dalton and Askam to form the North Western League in 1898/99. The first champions were Millom who finished just ahead of Barrow.

On 10 May 1899 the Cumberland clubs met at the Grapes Hotel in Workington and agreed to form a Cumberland Senior League for the following season. They voted W.E. Mason (Whitehaven) to Chair the new competition and R. Nixon (Maryport) was elected Hon. Secretary.

The participants in that first season, 1899/1900, were Brookland Rovers, Maryport, Seaton, Whitehaven, Whitehaven Rec and Workington. Neither of the Whitehaven clubs nor Workington have any connection with Whitehaven and Workington Town who currently play in the Co-operative Championship and Championship One respectively.

The first winners were the Maryport.

Other Cumberland senior teams that featured in the early finals or were champions include Parton(1903-04 & 04-05)Broughton Moor (1909-10 & 10-11) Egremont,Fothergill United,Flimby,Dearham Wanderers,Grasson Rangers,Aspatria Hornets.

Looking at the early days once the competition got going teams in and around Maryport seem to dominate.

Edited by yanto

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Millom and Wath Brow switched then but didn't enter the league. Millom went into the Lancashire Second Competition but I'm guessing Wath Brow must have played Cumberland Junior League or something

According to Seaton Rangers website Millom won the first Cumberland Sheild in 1898 -99 season as well as beating Barrow to the title in the North Western League (which as shows above included five Cumberland teams and three Furness teams so I doubt it was a Lancashire competition even though Furness was still part of Lancashire back then )

So did Millom play in the Lancashire and Cumberland competitions??

 

Info I have is The Brow formed in 1898 and went into the NWL competitoin the same year.

Edited by yanto

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Barrow, Millom and Ulverston all entered the Lancashire Second Competition from 1897-98 onwards so yeah the North West League must have been an extra league (there were such competitions in the early days, another one was a league for teams on the borders between Lancashire and Yorkshire). Dalton joined the second competition for the 1899-1900 season after which Ulverston and Dalton both dropped out. Millom beat Morecambe to get into the senior competition in 1899 and Barrow beat Tyldesley to step up in 1900

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<<Looking at the early days once the competition got going teams in and around Maryport seem to dominate>>

 

Players from Maryport such as :

 

James Lomas - captain of the first British Lions. Scoring record was phenomenal for Salford and Oldham - 395 apps 250 tries 508 goals in an era of relatively low scoring

Joe Ferguson - also played for England and 627 apps for Oldham

And slightly later the great Duggie Clark who played in the famous Rorke's Drift test

All 3 from Ellenborough/Maryport

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