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ckn

The new NHS thread

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Of course the simple answer is put more money in.

The Lib Dems wanted to put a 1p raise in income tax to sort the problem out. If only it would.

1p raises about £5.5  billion ( current spend is £140 bn)

Here is a snapshot of the problem

  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42572110

Actually, when it comes down to it the simple answer above is the only answer......but, is there the collective will to stump up more?

 

Edited by Bearman
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54 minutes ago, Bearman said:

Of course the simple answer is put more money in.

The Lib Dems wanted to put a 1p raise in income tax to sort the problem out. If only it would.

1p raises about £5.5  billion ( current spend is £140 bn)

Here is a snapshot of the problem

  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42572110

Actually, when it comes down to it the simple answer above is the only answer......but, is there the collective will to stump up more?

 

Since 2011 there has been an annual tax cut given out. Our tax take has been cut by tens of billions per year. I think this was the single biggest one but they all add up t a very high amount. 

That’s where the money has gone.  Claw it back and fund the NHS. 

And the Lib Dems have a cheek given they signed off on most of the truly big cuts to the NHS. Especially that Lamb bloke who was minister in charge of mental health during cuts to that area bigger than any in its history.

And, finally, don’t forget that the government is still plowing on with the £22bn of NHS cuts by 2020/21. Entire hospitals are still on the plans for cutting. 

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34 minutes ago, ckn said:

Since 2011 there has been an annual tax cut given out. Our tax take has been cut by tens of billions per year. I think this was the single biggest one but they all add up t a very high amount. 

That’s where the money has gone.  Claw it back and fund the NHS. 

Aside from the fact that the Tories are traditionally the low tax party, tax cuts have enabled more people to be better off, something that is particularly important at the moment given the recent rise in inflation.  The Tories have also increased the minimum wage and also increased the tax threshold.  All of this has been to the benefit of the lower paid.  Why would you want poorer people to may more in tax?

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1 minute ago, Saintslass said:

Aside from the fact that the Tories are traditionally the low tax party, tax cuts have enabled more people to be better off, something that is particularly important at the moment given the recent rise in inflation.  The Tories have also increased the minimum wage and also increased the tax threshold.  All of this has been to the benefit of the lower paid.  Why would you want poorer people to may more in tax?

Just a polite notice, this post was the final straw, I'm not convinced you are a troll but your posts wind me up too much.  I'm sticking you back on ignore, I really won't see your posts so no point replying to mine.

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3 minutes ago, ckn said:

Just a polite notice, this post was the final straw, I'm not convinced you are a troll but your posts wind me up too much.  I'm sticking you back on ignore, I really won't see your posts so no point replying to mine.

Oh good!  Please keep me on ignore from now onwards.

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8 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

Aside from the fact that the Tories are traditionally the low tax party, tax cuts have enabled more people to be better off, something that is particularly important at the moment given the recent rise in inflation.  The Tories have also increased the minimum wage and also increased the tax threshold.  All of this has been to the benefit of the lower paid.  Why would you want poorer people to may more in tax?

Inheritance tax cut was for the benefit of the poor?  The cut in top rate tax was for the benefit to the poor?  

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10 minutes ago, ckn said:

Just a polite notice, this post was the final straw, I'm not convinced you are a troll but your posts wind me up too much.  I'm sticking you back on ignore, I really won't see your posts so no point replying to mine.

You do know she's not a real person, right?

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THIS is the end-goal for many in the private sector of the health industry.  I wonder if this was discussed at any meetings between Hunt and Virgin.  Batter the hell out of GP practices to the point that they simply cannot cope with demand then let conveniently time the opening of private practices in the worst time of the year.

If it works well then you'll get it used as an exemplar of "public and private" co-operation with funding cut and pressures added to state provision ramped up until you get "well, of course you have to pay to see a GP, that means you only go when it's important!"  Completely missing the point that a very high number of fatal illnesses are caught at curable stage by people saying "what's this?  It's not painful but it wasn't there before."  A state funded primary care system where you can just go and talk to a GP about a concern regardless of your level of income is surely a mark of a civilised society; the alternative is a reversion to a state where your survivability directly links to your income.

My opinion of Virgin Healthcare hovers around the "pustulent boil on the backside of humanity" level.

(edit: yes, I know there are other private GP practices out there and this one is just another but it's conveniently well timed for launch and publicity)

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30 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

Inheritance tax cut was for the benefit of the poor?  The cut in top rate tax was for the benefit to the poor?  

The article ckn linked in to their post referenced tax cuts to 'people and business'.  Are the poor not people?

Evidence quoted in many reports over the years has shown that raising the top rate in tax brings in less tax revenue and puts entrepreneurs off.  That isn't me claiming that but economists.  

Inheritance tax could apply equally to the very cash rich or to your grandma who bought her house in the 1950s in a borough of London for a quid only to see it worth a million of them now.  Why should you be stung for massive inheritance tax because your grandma paid a pittance for what is now a desirable piece of real estate?

Edited by Saintslass

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3 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Nope.

Yep.  Happy to prove that to the important person on this site.  

Edited by Saintslass

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1 minute ago, Saintslass said:

Yep.  Happy to prove that to the important person on this site.  

Knock yourself out. There's more of gravy than the ... St Helens rugby league ... about you.

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16 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

The article ckn linked in to their post referenced tax cuts to 'people and business'.  Are the poor not people?

Evidence quoted in many reports over the years has shown that raising the top rate in tax brings in less tax revenue and puts entrepreneurs off.  That isn't me claiming that but economists.  

No it isn't economists, it is you. The Laffer Curve is largely discredited among economists. Even if it wasn't, the Laffer Curve entirely depends on where you think the UK is on that Laffer Curve. Raising the top rate of tax would only bring in less revenue if we were already at the peak optimal tax level - do you think that is the case? 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

The article ckn linked in to their post referenced tax cuts to 'people and business'.  Are the poor not people?

Not according to this chaming member of the Conservative Party

 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tories-gassing-chavs-whatsapp-messages-group-chat-activate-members-leaked-a7921086.html

Edited by Shadow

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41 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

Inheritance tax could apply equally to the very cash rich or to your grandma who bought her house in the 1950s in a borough of London for a quid only to see it worth a million of them now.  Why should you be stung for massive inheritance tax because your grandma paid a pittance for what is now a desirable piece of real estate?

Equally valid 

Why should you benefit from a million pound income without paying tax on it simply because your Grandma lived in Islington?

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3 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Knock yourself out. There's more of gravy than the ... St Helens rugby league ... about you.

If you want me to understand what I presume is an insult then you're going to have to explain your post as it makes no sense.

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A gossip bit on a blog I read, that's usually VERY accurate, said this today:

Quote

a number of trusts are expecting visits from their local MPs, today and over the weekend. I expect them to return shocked on Monday and provoke a political move of some sort next week?

I wonder, Tory MPs pushing May to stop the Tories sliding into an unelectable position?  Labour MPs as a concerted assault?

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21 hours ago, Saintslass said:

If you want me to understand what I presume is an insult then you're going to have to explain your post as it makes no sense.

You've obviously not read any Dickens or you'd get it.

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21 hours ago, Saintslass said:

If you want me to understand what I presume is an insult then you're going to have to explain your post as it makes no sense.

Can we keep it on track? If you want to slag each other off PM each other children.

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30 minutes ago, ckn said:

A gossip bit on a blog I read, that's usually VERY accurate, said this today:

I wonder, Tory MPs pushing May to stop the Tories sliding into an unelectable position?  Labour MPs as a concerted assault?

Working as a team, either of them?:negative:

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I've been a bit busy with things so have missed off the winter stats analysis.  Others have been covering this in the media quite well but they completely miss that if someone sleeps on a bed in a trolley then their risk of dying is actually quite low, their health is at higher risk but death is low risk.  On the other hand, if there's no critical care bed for someone who needs it then people are going to start dying.

For context below, the safe level is 65%.

Averaged across the week, 21% of English hospitals were at 100% capacity in critical care with a peak of 24.4% and a trough of 19.26%.  If you went to an A&E at one of those hospitals and you required a critical care bed then... well... tough.  If you were in for surgery at one of those hospitals and there was a complication that required critical care then... well... tough.

Averaged across the week, 63.67% of English hospitals were over 85% capacity in critical care with a peak of 70.37% and a trough of 57.78%.  If you went to A&E at one of those hospitals then you run a very high risk of not getting a critical care bed if you need one.  If you were scheduled for critical major surgery then it'll probably be cancelled unless you're going to die in the next few days, even quickly deteriorating conditions where delays have long-term consequences will be cancelled as long as you might keep alive.

People are dying because of lack of beds.  The government have cut beds on a massive scale.  It doesn't take a mathematical genius to tie the two together.

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