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So, I'm seeing a drive trying to get people to join the Lib Dems and the rallying call seems to be "look at them, look at the state of the other parties, come join us because, well, because, just look at them!"

 

Have i missed anything major apart from seeing Farron have a couple of public rants that really weren't that different from the rants we've seen on this forum, and, truth told, those Farron rants were a little less sophisticated in some areas.

 

As a former Lib Dem voter, sorry Lib Dems, you really have done nothing at all to convince me that you deserve my vote never mind my membership fee again.

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10,000 new members apparently.

Still, keep putting your faith in the yet you be born moderate party if you like.

I'm happy to have us focus on this single issue for now and welcome anyone who wants to do the same. The Tories won't and Labour can't - and the nationalists don't run in England.

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10,000 new members apparently.

Still, keep putting your faith in the yet you be born moderate party if you like.

I'm happy to have us focus on this single issue for now and welcome anyone who wants to do the same. The Tories won't and Labour can't - and the nationalists don't run in England.

I'd be highly suspicious of any new moderate centrist party as it'd be full of some of the biggest egos in politics.  They'd have to work very hard to earn my vote.

 

So, if there were an election called today, why should I vote Lib Dem other than it's not Labour or Tories?  I can see no genuine reason and no genuine candidates.  It's Farron, he's the sole credible politician of the Lib Dems saying anything, there really has been nothing of substance from the party since the last general election that is anything other than a leap of faith into a party.  There's almost as little substance as the Boris Johnson leadership campaign.

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Who are the LibDems again ?

I have a vague recollection of some Clegg bloke once having some power but all that's faded into obscurity  :tongue:

 

Tim Farron just reminds me of David Steel's spitting image puppet. A little man with a squeaky voice that everyone ignores no matter how much he jumps up & down begging for attention.

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10,000 new members apparently.

Still, keep putting your faith in the yet you be born moderate party if you like.

I'm happy to have us focus on this single issue for now and welcome anyone who wants to do the same. The Tories won't and Labour can't - and the nationalists don't run in England.

Me and 9999 others then

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Seriously though, I am a free voter right now, I am almost a textbook swing voter looking for a party to like, never mind actually love.

 

Why should I consider voting Lib Dem? 

 

And I'm not listening to negative "look at the Tories and Labour disasters", the Lib Dems have zero credibility on that area given 2010-2015 and Clegg still holding one of the 8 MP slots; I've yet to see an internal investigation into the disaster in the party to stop it happening again.

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Seriously though, I am a free voter right now, I am almost a textbook swing voter looking for a party to like, never mind actually love.

Why should I consider voting Lib Dem?

And I'm not listening to negative "look at the Tories and Labour disasters", the Lib Dems have zero credibility on that area given 2010-2015 and Clegg still holding one of the 8 MP slots; I've yet to see an internal investigation into the disaster in the party to stop it happening again.

I joined because they are the only mainstream party that's consistently pushed a pro Europe agenda, they did rein in the excesses of the tories during the referendum and will provide the only credible voice of opposition in the coming months.

Locally they are very active and effective, they need people with a wider vision than getting on the local town and county councils to translate that local success nationally

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I joined because they are the only mainstream party that's consistently pushed a pro Europe agenda, they did rein in the excesses of the tories during the referendum and will provide the only credible voice of opposition in the coming months.

Locally they are very active and effective, they need people with a wider vision than getting on the local town and county councils to translate that local success nationally

Locally is a different matter.  I'm a rock solid Lib Dem local voter, our local councillors at Borough and County Council levels are outstanding Lib Dem councillors, they have very similar views to mine and, what's different from the Parliamentary Party, is that they actually do what they say they will when they get a sniff of power.

 

The local and Parliamentary parties are wildly different beasts.  If I vote Lib Dem locally I get what I vote for.  If I vote Lib Dem nationally, where's the guarantee that they won't just use that to do the exact opposite of what they said they'd do?  The Parliamentary party duplicity cost lots of good Lib Dem councillors their seats despite them still upholding good Lib Dem values, why should the Parliamentary party get any credit for the success of the locals?

 

The Parliamentary party does not deserve my vote based on what the local people do.  They should bloody well earn it themselves.

 

And on standing up for Europe, I saw far more of Caroline Lucas than I did of Farron, in fact I saw far more of her than I did of every single one of the Lib Dem MPs put together.  Going by that, if that were my only voting criteria, Greens are way out in front.

 

On opposition, they're way down the list, the proper opposition right now is the SNP, they are actually putting solid opposition up to business as usual outside of the EU.  For example, yesterday I saw lots about Mhairi Black and the women's pension issue that the Tories had hoped to bury in the EU news.

 

As it stands:

Tories: I would rather use my voting paper as toilet roll to spoil it.

Labour:  Utterly unelectable and the sole open alternative candidate now, Angela Eagle, will do nothing to change that.  No vote there then.

Greens:  A genuine waste of a vote right now.  A couple of credible policies but the rest are a world away from rationality.

SNP: Suits my needs but, unfortunately, they are a Scottish party and won't be putting up a candidate in South Suffolk.

Kippers: I'd rather vote Tory.  See above.

 

So, that leaves the Lib Dems.  An open goal for Farron to convince me that there are credible policies on offer with credible MPs in waiting, I wouldn't mind even most of those who lost their seats in 2015, and a guarantee on what items are non-negotiable in a future coalition.  If he just rehashed the 2010 manifesto, tidied it up to reflect the changes in society and government, then put a few of the key items as non-negotiable then I'd vote Lib Dem on "least worst" basis.

 

Right now though, I have no confidence that Farron would not do a Clegg if given a sniff of power and sell out the top items that the Lib Dems stand for.  My vote is open and I genuinely have no idea where I'd vote if there were an election today, I would vote but damned if I know what I'd do.

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I have a soft spot for the Lib Dems.

The were a bit ahead of their time for the UK. In 2010 they thought they were in an episode of Borgen and nobly putting together a coalition in the best interests of the country.

Instead they were blamed for the promises that they couldn't keep in a coalition. It is hopefully the politics of the future but they paid a heavy price for being its guinea pig.

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If the SNP were to widen their remit, they wouldn't need independence. They could sweep up the disillusioned labour voters in England and have control of all of Britain.

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10,000 new members apparently.

 

A Labour source writes: Do you want some of ours...? ;)

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Do you want some of ours...? ;)

 

:tongue:

 

I'm sure some of them joined on the #iagreewithnick bandwagon and then defected to Green and then defected to Corbyn.

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Have to say I completely agree with this.  Lib Dems have something to sell here and don't seem to be making the most of it.  To be fair, it may be getting drowned out by all the Leadership contest noise so have to hope they will get on to it when thinks quieten down a bit next week.  I think there are a lot of "always Lib Dem in locals" people and they need to find a way to build on that by saying they can take the successes there to Westminster.  Unfortunately though for their traditional constituency they are now a bit toxic because of 2010-2015.  Ironically I think if Clegg hadn't been involved then he would actually be making great points now and would be the ideal person to bring people in but they've lost the ability for him to do that and neither Farron nor the other 6 strike me as media savvy.

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The Lib Dems - Everyone's 2nd favourite party!

Used to be.

These days English Labour people believe the SNP and Plaid are their kin.

The feeling is not mutual.

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The Lib/Dems claim to have curbed the excesses of the Tory party, but they didn't curb the excesses of totally unnecessary austerity. They went along with it. I can see Clegg sitting nodding as Osborne began the demotion of the welfare state.  I'm not saying some belt tightening wasn't necessary in 2010, but what Osborne did made matters worse not better.  It could be argued that the "Leave" vote last week was to some extent due to this austerity.  Many of those who voted leave did so IMO because they were  the victims of the unfairness. They believed blame lay with the EU and instead of trying to dissuade them of this belief, and placing the blame where it belongs the idiot in charge of Labour basically didn't get off his backside.

The Lib/Dems have said that they will make reapplying to join the EU their prime policy - why would the EU want us back?  TBH  I'm a bit like Craig, I've held left wing views all my life, but can't see Labour ever getting in again in my lifetime, what's left of it.  I'd never vote Tory.  But I can't get over the feeling that at bottom the Lib/Dems are at the bottom of what's happened because of their betrayal of their core beliefs in 2010  I wish I was Scottish!

Edited by Trojan

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If the SNP were to widen their remit, they wouldn't need independence. They could sweep up the disillusioned labour voters in England and have control of all of Britain.

Why the hell would any English person vote for a Scottish Nationalist Party ?

They don't give a damn about anyone south of the border and any interest they may have of representing any constituencies in England would purely be to enable them to gain more power so they can get a better deal for Scotland to the detriment of the rest of the country.

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Why the hell would any English person vote for a Scottish Nationalist Party ?

They don't give a damn about anyone south of the border and any interest they may have of representing any constituencies in England would purely be to enable them to gain more power so they can get a better deal for Scotland to the detriment of the rest of the country.

That's not what Nicola Sturgeon said last week.

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I think the problem with the Lib Dems, aside from the whole 2010-15 broken promises debacle, is that they are essentially a Social Democratic party rather than a "Liberal" party in the libertarian sense. Therefore its appeal to those more on the right of the political spectrum is becoming more and more limited.

If they did merge with some in the labour party then I think this would only further confirm their Social Democratic nature.

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The Lib/Dems claim to have curbed the excesses of the Tory party, but they didn't curb the excesses of totally unnecessary austerity. They went along with it. I can see Clegg sitting nodding as Osborne began the demotion of the welfare state. I'm not saying some belt tightening wasn't necessary in 2010, but what Osborne did made matters worse not better. It could be argued that the "Leave" vote last week was to some extent due to this austerity. Many of those who voted leave did so IMO because they were the victims of the unfairness. They believed blame lay with the EU and instead of trying to dissuade them of this belief, and placing the blame where it belongs the idiot in charge of Labour basically didn't get off his backside.

The Lib/Dems have said that they will make reapplying to join the EU their prime policy - why would the EU want us back? TBH I'm a bit like Craig, I've held left wing views all my life, but can't see Labour ever getting in again in my lifetime, what's left of it. I'd never vote Tory. But I can't get over the feeling that at bottom the Lib/Dems are at the bottom of what's happened because of their betrayal of their core beliefs in 2010 I wish I was Scottish!

If you want to fall in love with a Blairite austerity party go ahead ...

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Today i took my first faltering steps on the road to LibDemmery. I did some shopping at Waitrose...and it was OK!

Edited by JohnM

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Today i took my first faltering steps on the road to LibDemmery. I did some shopping at Waitrose...and it was OK!

 

 

Did you buy falafel, hummus, and haloumi?

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