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9 hours ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

2 more gains for the Lib Dems, one from labour and one from the tories.

 

As pointed out on twitter: both in areas that voted Leave.

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1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

As pointed out on twitter: both in areas that voted Leave.

It makes you wonder if those people who were quietly, but non commitedly pro remain have been shaken out of their complacency following the referendum? Possibly a bit late.

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27 minutes ago, Griff9of13 said:

It makes you wonder if those people who were quietly, but non commitedly pro remain have been shaken out of their complacency following the referendum? Possibly a bit late.

People always forget that the Lib Dems are almost the perfect by-election fighters at council level, they have a quite smooth process in virtually all areas and can mobilise very effective comms and foot-soldiers on local messages tied in with national ones, even if they directly contradict the Parliamentary Party's stances.  I've no doubt that the referendum and other things since, including the Corbyn continuation, were key issues but I'd be looking more towards a very well run tactical campaign by the local party structures.

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29 minutes ago, ckn said:

People always forget that the Lib Dems are almost the perfect by-election fighters at council level, they have a quite smooth process in virtually all areas and can mobilise very effective comms and foot-soldiers on local messages tied in with national ones, even if they directly contradict the Parliamentary Party's stances.  I've no doubt that the referendum and other things since, including the Corbyn continuation, were key issues but I'd be looking more towards a very well run tactical campaign by the local party structures.

How does it compare to previous by-election years post-GE? I've genuinely no idea but I'd be surprised if the Lib Dems have a history of taking seats in Labour heartlands like Sunderland.

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The by-election was also caused by a Labour councillor being disqualified for failing to turn up to any council meetings for six months, and the Labour candidate was the Husband of another councillor. Neither of these are going to have helped the Labour vote, but seem to be issues specific to this particular by-election (not that I'm arguing Labour would have won without these issues). 

Edited by Saint 1

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2 hours ago, ckn said:

People always forget that the Lib Dems are almost the perfect by-election fighters at council level, they have a quite smooth process in virtually all areas and can mobilise very effective comms and foot-soldiers on local messages tied in with national ones, even if they directly contradict the Parliamentary Party's stances.  I've no doubt that the referendum and other things since, including the Corbyn continuation, were key issues but I'd be looking more towards a very well run tactical campaign by the local party structures.

The Lib Dems thrive on being all things to all people.

It works well until they end up in power, then that strategy kind of falls apart, as we saw during the Coalition period when real decision have to be made.

As a punch drunk moderate Labour member, if we are inevitably destined to haemorrhage support until Corbyn goes (if he ever does and if there's anything left by then) I'd rather lose votes to the Lib Dems than UKIP.

There are some areas on which I can find myself in agreement with the Lib Dems, not least the matter of Europe. I cannot say the same for UKIP.

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1 hour ago, John Drake said:

The Lib Dems thrive on being all things to all people.

It works well until they end up in power, then that strategy kind of falls apart, as we saw during the Coalition period when real decision have to be made.

As a punch drunk moderate Labour member, if we are inevitably destined to haemorrhage support until Corbyn goes (if he ever does and if there's anything left by then) I'd rather lose votes to the Lib Dems than UKIP.

There are some areas on which I can find myself in agreement with the Lib Dems, not least the matter of Europe. I cannot say the same for UKIP.

I've just posted something similar on the Corbyn thread.  If I felt I could trust them I'd vote for them in preference for comrade Corbyn and his clicktavists.

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9 minutes ago, Trojan said:

I've just posted something similar on the Corbyn thread.  If I felt I could trust them I'd vote for them in preference for comrade Corbyn and his clicktavists.

If the Lib Dems promised irrevocably not to go into a coalition with the Tories or gave a hard list of lines they would never cross, all signed with promises to give up their seats if they crossed them, then I may be tempted back.  I find it very galling that Clegg is still an MP though.

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6 minutes ago, ckn said:

If the Lib Dems promised irrevocably not to go into a coalition with the Tories or gave a hard list of lines they would never cross, all signed with promises to give up their seats if they crossed them, then I may be tempted back.  I find it very galling that Clegg is still an MP though.

But who'd enforce it? IIRC they signed a solemn promise to eliminate student fees and reneged on it as soon as they got the red boxes.

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3 hours ago, Trojan said:

But who'd enforce it? IIRC they signed a solemn promise to eliminate student fees and reneged on it as soon as they got the red boxes.

They're completely untrustworthy opportunists they'll say owt to get a cross next to their names 

Edited by Phil
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31 minutes ago, Phil said:

They're completely untrustworthy opportunists they'll say pet to get a cross next to their names 

Have you just summed up a politician rather than just a Lib Dem? 

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28 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

Have you just summed up a politician rather than just a Lib Dem? 

There's something it what you say, but bear in mind that the student loan promise, probably kept them seats and split the anti Tory vote, thus costing Labour in Uni constituencies (like Clegg's.  Then of course there were those who voted LD to keep the Tories out.  I reckon these two phenomena were responsible for the number of LD MP's in 2010.   From my point of view what Clegg & co did was utterly despicable.  The arguments about the deficit and Greece were just fig=leaves to cover their political avarice.  They had 5 years in power and totally misused the leverage that should have given them.  And now look at them.  As I say Corbyn sorely tempts me to switch to LD next time, but I'd find it very hard. 

I'd prefer a new alignment on the left.  Whether this could be achieved is doubtful, but that'd be my preference.

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Many people on here seem to think the lib dems, as the junior partner in a coalition should have been able to implement their whole manifesto. Of course the reality is that they couldn't, and they had to negotiate. Having no mp's who took place in the last coalition negotiations they were a bit naive but they got some pretty big points. A referendum on the voting system (something Labour had promised to change then once they realised they could win without it conveniently forgot about), House of Lords reform was put on the agenda, increase in the base rates of tax and NI, and stopped the conservatives completely privatising the NHS. To me personally those are points that mean a lot to me.

Whilst I can understand people being bitter about tuition fees, something had to give somewhere and they were rightly punished for it at the ballot box (although junior partners in coalitions do tend to get kicked at the next election if you look at other countries). Some of the vitriol from the labour supporters is way over the top. 

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3 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

Have you just summed up a politician rather than just a Lib Dem? 

Yeah fair point, but the LDs always portray themselves as ethical and caring etc etc whereas in reality they'd jump in bed with anyone to get a taste of power

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19 hours ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

2 more gains for the Lib Dems, one from labour and one from the tories.

 

A by-election win against a party in Government and another led by Corbyn.  I do not think it is of major significance but a good sign for them.

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1 minute ago, Phil said:

Yeah fair point, but the LDs always portray themselves as ethical and caring etc etc whereas in reality they'd jump in bed with anyone to get a taste of power

Since nearly all commentators said a coalition with labour was untenable, and a  supply and confidence coalition would probably have only lasted about 6 months before another general election, which likely would have lead to a conservative majority... personally I think they did the right thing. 

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4 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

A by-election win against a party in Government and another led by Corbyn.  I do not think it is of major significance but a good sign for them.

Agreed. The "recovery" doesn't seem to have come from a lift in their national polling figures. 

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1 hour ago, RidingPie said:

Since nearly all commentators said a coalition with labour was untenable, and a  supply and confidence coalition would probably have only lasted about 6 months before another general election, which likely would have lead to a conservative majority... personally I think they did the right thing. 

But then again maybe not. Who's to decide when the next General Election would be?   If Cameron had gone to the Queen asking for a disillusion perhaps the other parties would have called hey lads hey.  The Queen could perhaps send for another party leader and ask if he/she could form a government.  I think they saw the bait of the Jags and the red boxes and didn't see the hook! 

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1 hour ago, RidingPie said:

Since nearly all commentators said a coalition with labour was untenable, and a  supply and confidence coalition would probably have only lasted about 6 months before another general election, which likely would have lead to a conservative majority... personally I think they did the right thing. 

Is it worth pointing out *again* that the numbers did not work.  The combination was too small for an effective minority government, and once THE GREEN PARTY said they would not join a rainbow coalition then you couldn't form a majority government either.

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6 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Is it worth pointing out *again* that the numbers did not work.  The combination was too small for an effective minority government, and once THE GREEN PARTY said they would not join a rainbow coalition then you couldn't form a majority government either.

Yes, but some people will never believe you (see Trojan's reply to me). This whole not listening to experts and sticking to your 'beliefs' things has been building for a while. 

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1 hour ago, RidingPie said:

Yes, but some people will never believe you (see Trojan's reply to me). This whole not listening to experts and sticking to your 'beliefs' things has been building for a while. 

Andrew Adonis in his book "5 Days in May"  does not agree. He says what happened was that Brown had had enough and turned it in.

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