Les Tonks Sidestep

Bradford Bulls / HMRC / Administration

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Johnny, Absolutely not,they have done nothing but tarnish the great game of Rugby League.Name me something good that they have ever done to improve our game.By the way I am not blaming them for the Bulls plight but as far as I can see they had a duty to the rest of the teams in the League to come up with the right and proper decisions re the new owners.This they clearly have not done and should be accountable just the same as the owners should.They have made the wrong decision twice.I was always told not to make the same mistake twice.They have and they are supposed to be overseeing the game.Would you let them work for you? I know I would not.

You've an agenda with the RFL mate. All the RFL can do is base judgement on an owners ability on paper, evidence, business plan etc etc. After that it's the owners responsibility more than the RFLs.

Do you want them to micro manage each and every club?

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"Bulls have been expelled from the RFL."

 

 

Sad. Mr Green must really have upset them.

 

 

Well he (Green) certainly upset Dr Koukash and ultimately cost the club dearly.      `Always be nice to people on the way up........................you might need them on the way down` 

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Yeah but League 1 has teams mostly on 3 figure crowds. Minus Toronto, Bradford could put together a top side with their crowds.

You don't think crowds might not be that spectacular now?

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Because they have proved nothing, including their appetite for the long run.

 

They're based in a huge city in a new market.

 

And they have an owner who not only doesn't mind not being fast-tracked into the top tier (he actually likes P&R, oddly) but is prepared to pay the traveling costs of every tiny tin-pot English side in the comp to visit his team.

 

But Toronto was nowhere to be seen in 1895 when the chips were down and has made no effort whatsoever to move nearer to the M62 since then. The shame! Ban this filth!

 

Typical of RL really to find the only North American sport fan on the planet who opposes the franchise system. Such bitter irony. It pains me to say it but Mr Perez - despite his well-meaning P&R gaff - is far too good for the RFL and none of you deserve him. 

Edited by DeadShotKeen

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Well he (Green) certainly upset Dr Koukash and ultimately cost the club dearly.      `Always be nice to people on the way up........................you might need them on the way down` 

Please don't bring the Doc up on here otherwise this'll become another boring SC thread. ;)

 

The common sense approach would be to fast track Toronto.

I'm not so sure about this one. :swoon:

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Not if people hate Bradford and are looking for a reason to just class them as no hope also rans without the resources to ever be a big club again. i'm not saying you personally do but this is often an attitude.

Maybe it could be said Bradford are now the same as Hunslet and Swinton who once won four cups before five figure crowds. they aren't.

The history books also show clubs who sank to the bottom for some years like HKR who regained pretty much their old level of support and went on to get back on the big stage.

The game needs the big clubs and Bradford are one of them, moreso you have a strong RL area in which Halifax are struggling to a worse degree remember and when only a few thousand turn up at Fartown you have to worry about the whole area where Huddersfield Town, Bradford City and Halifax Town are quite ready to dominate matters and kill off all three.

Just needs Ken Davey to no longer be on the scene and a massive sink hole could appear in the Sports heartlands...........

Why is Bradfords plight different than Hunslet or Swinton?

Surely it's just a matter of timing?

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Why is Bradfords plight different than Hunslet or Swinton?

Surely it's just a matter of timing?

That's quite a valid question. How much time needs to go by until history is irrelevant.

Parky, you've dismissed Swintons big days. When will Bradford's no longer be relevant?

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The common sense approach would be to fast track Toronto.

 

I find that hilarious. I still cannot see the need to have them in RL at all. It is a completely ridiculous venture that will probably prove to be as big a joke as those now running the game at the top.

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Why is Bradfords plight different than Hunslet or Swinton?

Surely it's just a matter of timing?

 

Because the game is kept alive by a TV contract, the RFL/Clubs can decide who they keep alive.

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Read as many posts as I could on here before I could write my thoughts.  Here goes...

 

For many years I despised Bradford with a passion, they were the lead my a chairman with a sod the rest below SL attitude and I'll never forget his comment about Bradford not being made in the same breath as Featherstone Rovers.  However that bloke moved on just before the bubble burst (no surprise there) and with the debts building up there was only one place the club was going.  I don't feel sorry for the plastic fans that jumped on the Caisley bandwagon but I genuinely feel sorry for the loyal fans who've been there through thick and thin.  Those are the supporters who were so gracious in defeat when we beat them to knock them out of the top 4, true brilliant RL fans.

 

What makes this forum hard to get involved in is the double standards by some members.  I remember when Keighley started splashing a bit of cash about I think when a local businessman called Patel was involved (might be wrong on the name).  He then stopped funding the club and they were back in money trouble, I remember the cold comments very well taking the pee and basically not caring about a so called small club.  However we now have a so called big club in Bradford who are again in administration and because the Odasl bowl was filled with 15,000 plastic fans in the height of the glory days supporters of the smaller clubs are slagged off because they aren't showing any sympathy.  Can you honesty blame them? 

 

I don't think there is one RL club who in there history can honestly say they've been run financially well, however Parky believes we should take advise from a supporter of this perfect club that broke the salary cap to survive relegation and were bailed out by Tesco to survive.  I'm sure I'll be told how wrong I am, yes I don't know the ins and outs of Wigan RL but he doesn't know the same about other clubs.  Love your passion for RL Parky you won't get much support from me for most of your comments on this thread, sorry sir.

 

To sum up I hope that Bradford can find a solution to their problems and give there loyal fans a club to be proud of.

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The common sense approach would be to fast track Toronto.

How is fast tracking a club that has yet to play a single game of pro RL a common sense approach ?

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That's quite a valid question. How much time needs to go by until history is irrelevant.

Parky, you've dismissed Swintons big days. When will Bradford's no longer be relevant?

 

sorry the multiquote system is not working

 

as above a TV contract keeps the game alive and keeps 12 clubs secure at top level.

 

so you do not have to let clubs go to the wall if you think they add to Superleague,

 

Obviously many do not think they are of any value to SL but that may be because they just "hate" Bradford as fans often do (I know it's not real hate but it makes these discussions get silly).

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 Love your passion for RL Parky you won't get much support from me for most of your comments on this thread, sorry sir.

 

 

Ian,

 

Tremendous post, enjoyed that, beats the usual abuse from the usual suspects :tongue:

 

I put it to you that this is business, plastic fans pay good money, and even when Bradford  left the building Bulls still had big crowds for a championship side.

 

I don't come from the point of liking Bulls that would be as bad as making a point on the basis of disliking them

 

They were good for business, they only stumbled because of no rich owner, so if a rich enough owner is about I'd have them back like a shot.

 

Because I love Superleague

 

Because there would be no game without it

 

If Bulls were the 13th. strongest club I would not have them in.........

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Because there would be no game without it

 

A very honest reply.  We could get in a room and argue all day long and still wouldn't agree :blum:  especially on the above .  Need to sort myself out for work now so can't debate anymore at the moment but will try to debate further this evening.  Have a great day.

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sorry the multiquote system is not working

as above a TV contract keeps the game alive and keeps 12 clubs secure at top level.

so you do not have to let clubs go to the wall if you think they add to Superleague,

Obviously many do not think they are of any value to SL but that may be because they just "hate" Bradford as fans often do (I know it's not real hate but it makes these discussions get silly).

You're avoiding answering my question. You're implying Bradford would add something to SL with "evidence" from 10 years ago. But discounting clubs who've shown to be big 20 or 30 years ago.

How long until Bradfords achievements are deemed equally irrelevant

Who's talking about hating Bradford?

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Point four is the key, players contracts finish they move on (staff leave a company they need to be replaced), you cannot sit on a diminishing squad (smaller raw materials in stores), you cannot rely on inferior players to deliver a quality team ( the quality of the raw material determines the quality of the product), at the end of the day these are business decisions taken between Bradford and the RFL to just say "they shouldn't be allowed to sign anybody" without knowing ALL of the circumstances is so naive as to be child like in its simplicity.

They need to stop shopping at harrods

And get to poundland instead

Cut your cloth,seems to be almost the norm at other clubs.

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My main concern has to be that no more plastic fans like myself (who got on board during the Caisley era) get involved with the club. Keep these people out of RL, they aren't wanted or needed. Bloody weirdos enjoying themselves.

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The common sense approach would be to fast track Toronto.

Why, what have they done to earn a place directly in the Championship ?

Have they demonstrated they can compete on the pitch - No

Have they any evidence they are a well run club off the pitch - No

 

If the Bulls drop out then the most logical move is to either not demote Whitehaven or promote the next highest places C1 club

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    After the Crusaders demise from their position in Super League the RFL made public noises about getting tougher on clubs who failed to pay HMRC.

 

    They mentioned 'Special Measures'.

 

     http://media.therfl.co.uk/docs/Section%20A3%20-%20Finance%20final%20pdf.pdf

 

 

   This winding up order has been listed for court hearing regularly for the past months.

 

    When Green returned from a holiday from a 'crisis' a few months ago he never mentioned the matter until it hit social media.

 

    Green then mentioned that it was a dispute about the amount.

 

     The dispute about the amount was raised again today.

 

     During this time the club have recruited a head coach from Australia and made more than one signing from the NRL.

 

     Special measures for sure...

The RFL really does need to bring in a very strong disincentive now to stop clubs like Bradford continually having money problems

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Reading the posts on here, there seems to be a lot of confusion between the size of a club and the power of it's brand.

 

Every realistic supporter knows and accepts that the Bulls are not a big club anymore, and haven't been for a few years now. But the difference between the Bulls and other smaller clubs, and what makes their position almost unique, is that their brand is still huge and still has the power to draw people in. Whether people like to admit it or not, the super league would not be what it is today without the achievements and efforts of the Bulls in it's early years.

 

The Bulls were one of very few clubs who really tried to make super league a glitz and glammer league. They tried to make every home game an event that drew in families from far and wide. Our pre-match entertainment was second to none. They tried to put English RL on the map and sadly are now suffering for those endeavours.

 

So when somebody asks "Why is Bradfords plight different than Hunslet or Swinton? "  the answer is simple: The Bulls are being remembered for far more than their past on field achievements. Their brand is recognised both nationally and internationally much more than the likes of hunslet or swinton - and that's no disrespect to those clubs, its just how it is.

 

Plenty of today's players would still be very happy to be associated with a financially stable and on-the-up Bradford Bulls because they were the leading lights during those players childhoods and that is something we need to take advantage of and what makes us a good business proposition to somebody who's willing and has the cash available to throw at us.

 

What I'm trying to say is that nobody is saying the Bulls are still a big club and 'belong in super league', but that because of the power of the Bradford Bulls brand, they have more potential than most to be a big club again if and when they get their house in order.

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