oldrover Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 Is there any precedent for that DF? is it not possible to set a precedent/ just curious joe mullaney is a god the only good tiger is a stuffed tiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tandle Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 Bradford bulls have no assets players are not assets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOGFATHER Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 Is there any precedent for that DF? Not that I'm aware of. But that is what the rules seem to suggest. Although I think you need a law degree to fully understand them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOGFATHER Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 is it not possible to set a precedent/ just curiousThey could, but it is quite difficult to do in this scenario I would have thought. There have been so many instances of it in the past with very similar punishments handed out. I would have thought the RFL would have needed to change the rules and communicate this to the clubs first. Otherwise, they would more than likely find themselves at the sports arbitrator, like what happened with Batley over the dr issue involving Fairbank. The RFL had set precedents of issuing no sanction to clubs who had committed the same offence previously, so they found it difficult to really punish us, when they had a history of letting it slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Jekyll Stocking Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 As of yet, no punishment whatsoever. Their membership of the RFL has been suspended - until that is reinstated they cannot be punished further by the RFL. If they get a buyer and if that buyer wants to run the club as a going RL concern, and not simply purchase the assets, then they will need to apply to be reinstated. At that point the RFL can dictate their terms, having first satisfied themselves that the purchaser is of the required standard. If this were to happen then the RFL will need to ensure that the punishment is appropriate to the club's actions, can be seen to be just and defensible, and be of benefit to the game as a whole; a whole load of circumspection will be needed at that point to ensure that the baby doesn't get thrown out with the bathwater. Coolie wasn't asking what the RFL's response should be. He was asking for your opinion on a suitable sanction against Bradford. As am I. Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolie Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 Coolie wasn't asking what the RFL's response should be. He was asking for your opinion on a suitable sanction against Bradford. As am I. Yes that was my question What does BSJ feel would be a adequate punishment?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Coolie wasn't asking what the RFL's response should be. He was asking for your opinion on a suitable sanction against Bradford. As am I. My response is exactly the same though. Bradford are not presently a member of the RFL so, until they apply to become a member, there can be no sanction by the RFL. The RFL cannot punish anyone for how they carry out their business only for how it impacts upon the RL community and such punishment can only relate to their participation in that community. If Bradford do not apply for membership then their existence as a RL club will cease, which may satisfy some people, but not me. If they do apply then it depends upon what conditions might be reasonably applied to their reinstatement. If those conditions were such that it made it impossible for them to continue as a RL club then I would regard that as unreasonable; if they were minimal, then I would also regard that as unreasonable. So somewhere in between the two would be about right. Broadening this you have to consider what effect a swingeing sanction might have upon our RL community. At one stage, when successful, the Bulls were attracting crowds of 10,000+. These weren't simply floating RL supporters but people attracted to RL by the Bulls and what they had to offer. In the Championship they have still been attracting 4-5000 crowds, which you could probably describe as hardcore RL fans. Force the club out of existence or banish them to C1 and what do you imagine would happen to these fans? I can assure you that they wouldn't switch their allegiance to either Batley or Dewsbury, nor to any other pro RL club. In reality they would probably be lost to the sport altogether, not easily replaced by the relative success of others in the league. Therefore, in my view, there would be a nett loss to the RL community as a whole, and a loss of significant income to the game and the other clubs in the Championship, something that we can ill afford. Maybe you believe differently. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOGFATHER Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Yes that was my question What does BSJ feel would be a adequate punishment?? I think the potential investors will have some sway on what the punishment is, believe it or not. They can simply state they are prepared to throw money in to sorting the Bulls out, but they will only do so on the proviso that there is just a points deduction. The RFL can tell them where to go, but in all honesty, whoever buys the Bulls, will be in a pretty strong position to negotiate, don't kid yourself that the RFL will just be able to take the judge dread approach to this, because they won't be able to.Can the game afford to lose such an iconic club? How would that look to potential sponsors and investors in the RFL? As BSJ points out, the majority of the 4000 fans lost would be gone forever. I know so many ex-Batley and Keighley fans who stopped watching the game entirely after we were refused entry, sorry, paid off not to enter SL. Can the game afford the bad publicity of one of it biggest clubs going to the wall? There is also the consideration of the very lucrative lease the RFL hold on Odsal. Which is the real kicker in all of this. They will be desperate to keep a club playing there to keep the money rolling in. I can't imagine the potential buyers won't know how much is at stake for the RFL. This situation is nowhere near as cut and dried as some seem to think it is. How many Bradford die hard fans do you think have a spare £2 or £3 million lying around, who also have the time and inclination to run the club, and face the abuse owners get once the team starts losing? Not many 6 have come forward so far with an interest, but once the full picture as to what they owe is revealed, you can bet 2 or 3 will be walking away and look at the owners that have been and gone before them over the last few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyoldram Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 My response is exactly the same though. Bradford are not presently a member of the RFL so, until they apply to become a member, there can be no sanction by the RFL. The RFL cannot punish anyone for how they carry out their business only for how it impacts upon the RL community and such punishment can only relate to their participation in that community. If Bradford do not apply for membership then their existence as a RL club will cease, which may satisfy some people, but not me. If they do apply then it depends upon what conditions might be reasonably applied to their reinstatement. If those conditions were such that it made it impossible for them to continue as a RL club then I would regard that as unreasonable; if they were minimal, then I would also regard that as unreasonable. So somewhere in between the two would be about right. Broadening this you have to consider what effect a swingeing sanction might have upon our RL community. At one stage, when successful, the Bulls were attracting crowds of 10,000+. These weren't simply floating RL supporters but people attracted to RL by the Bulls and what they had to offer. In the Championship they have still been attracting 4-5000 crowds, which you could probably describe as hardcore RL fans. Force the club out of existence or banish them to C1 and what do you imagine would happen to these fans? I can assure you that they wouldn't switch their allegiance to either Batley or Dewsbury, nor to any other pro RL club. In reality they would probably be lost to the sport altogether, not easily replaced by the relative success of others in the league. Therefore, in my view, there would be a nett loss to the RL community as a whole, and a loss of significant income to the game and the other clubs in the Championship, something that we can ill afford. Maybe you believe differently. I imagine the final solution will be along the lines of a hefty points deduction. I would also though, like the RL to impose a condition on any prospective buyers for the club, that as a condition of the Bulls reinstatement, they be compelled to remain in the Championship for at least two more seasons, regardless of their finishing position, This would discourage glory hunting "hobbyists" from buying the club, and ensure that the next owners had the interests of the club at heart rather than their own. This would hopefully stabilise the club and ensure it's long term future. Censorship ends in logical completeness when nobody is allowed to read any books except the books that nobody reads. George Bernard Shaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 I imagine the final solution will be along the lines of a hefty points deduction. I would also though, like the RL to impose a condition on any prospective buyers for the club, that as a condition of the Bulls reinstatement, they be compelled to remain in the Championship for at least two more seasons, regardless of their finishing position, This would discourage glory hunting "hobbyists" from buying the club, and ensure that the next owners had the interests of the club at heart rather than their own. This would hopefully stabilise the club and ensure it's long term future. That could be reasonable GOR. I would add the rider that the structure of the leagues is due for reconsideration once more at the end of 2017, so there could yet be plenty of wiggle room - or none. Just to comment on Dogfather's post about Odsal. Whilst the RFL may get a reasonable income from the leaseholding (I don't know how much it is, do you?) the real reason for them taking over the lease in the first instance was in exchange for a debt that they held over Bradford, thus securing this with something more tangible. the lease in itself will still be an asset on the RFL's books and could prove to be significant if there were any moves to redevelop the site. I don't think they will be panicking nor desperate. IMO, of course. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Bulls could go into liquidation on Friday by all accounts. The players were informed of this today and walked out of training until their futures are clarified. It isn't looking good at all - I expect GM's phone will be ringing a fair bit over the next couple of days. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crown Flatter Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 There are two interested parties still said to be keen on taking over that club. Legs, Dews, Legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolie Posted December 14, 2016 Author Share Posted December 14, 2016 Well one man's rubbish Is another man's gold Chasing the quick quid is not always the best solution in the long run... A few of them players will have to seriously lower the sights to be picked up by other team's Maybe Karl pryce needs to have a serious word with his brother As they'll be a full time vacancy come next august Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crown Flatter Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Now down to one candidate as the Bradford Park Avenue link has now pulled out. Legs, Dews, Legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolie Posted December 15, 2016 Author Share Posted December 15, 2016 It's all a game Someone will have their pokerface on And save them at the last minute Just wait and see Don't know about mystic meg More cynical coolie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Now down to one candidate as the Bradford Park Avenue link has now pulled out. Or four, according to the administrator - oh no, now it's two, no just a minute it is one but with four more in the background. Is it just me or does anyone else feel that this bloke is making it up as he goes along? There seem to be a load of potential/not really interested bidders on the sidelines with plenty to say but no money to back it up criticising all and sundry for what is going on. What do you think their angle might be? I reckon there are quite a few vultures circling who can sniff an opportunity to make some money. I doubt that any of them truly have the future of the club at heart. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 It's all a game Someone will have their pokerface on And save them at the last minute Just wait and see Don't know about mystic meg More cynical coolie Really? Do you know of any club where that has happened before? (Still cynical?) Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolie Posted December 15, 2016 Author Share Posted December 15, 2016 Really? Do you know of any club where that has happened before? (Still cynical?) Let's just see shall we Saviour is just around the corner Watch this space Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Let's just see shall we Saviour is just around the corner Watch this space You avoided my question - yes or no? Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolie Posted December 15, 2016 Author Share Posted December 15, 2016 You avoided my question - yes or no? Which bit?? Team going under? Team saved at the last minute?? Or I'm I still cynical?? This is how this will pan out Some business man somewhere will want Bradford.. He wants it at the lowest price possible,he'll be reluctant to chuck money at previous regime's that's milked the cow dry..so it's down to pokerface You either chuck money at the club as it now,or let it get liquidated and start a fresh with a clean slate.. Using the money that you'd be chucking at a dead horse now..or spend it on a new stable debt free Know which I'd be doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crown Flatter Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Or four, according to the administrator - oh no, now it's two, no just a minute it is one but with four more in the background. Is it just me or does anyone else feel that this bloke is making it up as he goes along? There seem to be a load of potential/not really interested bidders on the sidelines with plenty to say but no money to back it up criticising all and sundry for what is going on. What do you think their angle might be? I reckon there are quite a few vultures circling who can sniff an opportunity to make some money. I doubt that any of them truly have the future of the club at heart. Legs, Dews, Legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crown Flatter Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Or four, according to the administrator - oh no, now it's two, no just a minute it is one but with four more in the background. Is it just me or does anyone else feel that this bloke is making it up as he goes along? There seem to be a load of potential/not really interested bidders on the sidelines with plenty to say but no money to back it up criticising all and sundry for what is going on. What do you think their angle might be? I reckon there are quite a few vultures circling who can sniff an opportunity to make some money. I doubt that any of them truly have the future of the club at heart. It's two interested parties again. The water is now somewhat muddied with the ownership of Odsal trying to raise its head. Legs, Dews, Legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 It's two interested parties again. The water is now somewhat muddied with the ownership of Odsal trying to raise its head. That's straightforward - it is owned by Bradford Council and the RFL have a long-term lease. If the bidders are making ownership of Odsal a condition of purchae that would be a clear indication of where their true interests lie. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Which bit?? Team going under? Team saved at the last minute?? Or I'm I still cynical?? This is how this will pan out Some business man somewhere will want Bradford.. He wants it at the lowest price possible,he'll be reluctant to chuck money at previous regime's that's milked the cow dry..so it's down to pokerface You either chuck money at the club as it now,or let it get liquidated and start a fresh with a clean slate.. Using the money that you'd be chucking at a dead horse now..or spend it on a new stable debt free Know which I'd be doing OK, I'l save your remaining neurons. This is precisely what happened with our own beloved club after the McDermott debacle-days. . Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crown Flatter Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 OK, I'l save your remaining neurons. This is precisely what happened with our own beloved club after the McDermott debacle-days. . Now back in 1983 when we were a Members' Club we were asked then to save our beloved club and today I came across my certificate for my donation. I didn't get my bit of turf though when we sold the ground! Legs, Dews, Legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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