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Scubby

Do more people want Toulouse & Toronto to fail than succeed?

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With an unbelievably fair wind, we could see a SL top 6/8 of something like...

 

Warrington

Catalans

Wigan

Toronto

Leeds

Toulouse

Saints

Hull

 

....within 5 years.With all the things that may entail from this (French derbies, TV opportunities, Sponsorship, Challenge to Salary Cap, NRL marquee players in Canada), is there enough tolerance within the game to accept it if it actually happens?

 

At the moment many may be happy to play along with these 'pie in the sky' scenarios but if the reality of the potential hits home will the game actually welcome it or try to reject it? More than enough people are happy to see this sort of thing fail and for SL to retain the status quo. If a club like Toronto or Toulouse tore through to become one of the game's giants is our instinct to welcome the obvious spin offs or reject them and make it difficult?

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With an unbelievably fair wind, we could see a SL top 6/8 of something like...

 

Warrington

Catalans

Wigan

Toronto

Leeds

Toulouse

Saints

Hull

 

....within 5 years.With all the things that may entail from this (French derbies, TV opportunities, Sponsorship, Challenge to Salary Cap, NRL marquee players in Canada), is there enough tolerance within the game to accept it if it actually happens?

 

At the moment many may be happy to play along with these 'pie in the sky' scenarios but if the reality of the potential hits home will the game actually welcome it or try to reject it? More than enough people are happy to see this sort of thing fail and for SL to retain the status quo. If a club like Toronto or Toulouse tore through to become one of the game's giants is our instinct to welcome the obvious spin offs or reject them and make it difficult?

The new formula makes it very hard for clubs to go from the Championship One to SL. The more clubs like Toronto and Toulouse, the better it is for us. 

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5 years is too optimistic imho.

In my opinion, Canada's thing is a huge risk and needs to work. 

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The new formula makes it very hard for clubs to go from the Championship One to SL. The more clubs like Toronto and Toulouse, the better it is for us. 

 

The new formula is under review for the 2018 season. Five years is a hell of a long time in RL. We can chop and change so much in that time.

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The new formula makes it very hard for clubs to go from the Championship One to SL. The more clubs like Toronto and Toulouse, the better it is for us. 

I disagree.

 

A cash rich club could be playing SL clubs within 18months and in Super League after 2 years. In the old system that was pretty much impossible, unless we did a Paris or Gateshead which I suggest we wouldn't do again.

 

This system is clearer on what a club needs to do. Whether we agree with the approach is a different point, but you can go up just by having a millionaire prepared to blow a relatively modest amount of money in sporting terms.

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On the original point though I think there is a valid question mark over how many English teams should be preserved in the RFL's comp.

 

My view is, and always has been that replacing 6 English clubs with 6 overseas clubs isn't necessarily effective expansion.

 

Shrinking one market to grow another isn't the best plan to me.

Edited by Dave T

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Do more people want Toulouse & Toronto to fail than succeed?

This question is fascinating maybe it should be a poll? Only being able to vote once would help there.

 

As Dave T said above shrinking one market to expand another isn't the answer, but I don't think it'll come to that. I think large city market places are something RL has lacked in the past and they can create income streams others fall down on.

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Do more people want Toulouse & Toronto to fail than succeed?

This question is fascinating maybe it should be a poll? Only being able to vote once would help there.

 

As Dave T said above shrinking one market to expand another isn't the answer, but I don't think it'll come to that. I think large city market places are something RL has lacked in the past and they can create income streams others fall down on.

 

The problem is that if we have an approach that keeps only 12 teams in SL, then we could end up in a position which sees 25% of the comp non-English quite quickly. If this structure delivers this success to outsiders then more people could become interested from outside the UK. 

 

There needs to be an agreement on what we want it to look like moving forward - real success to me would be strengthening the existing game and bringing in new strong clubs too - that is expansion imho.

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The problem is that if we have an approach that keeps only 12 teams in SL, then we could end up in a position which sees 25% of the comp non-English quite quickly. If this structure delivers this success to outsiders then more people could become interested from outside the UK. 

 

There needs to be an agreement on what we want it to look like moving forward - real success to me would be strengthening the existing game and bringing in new strong clubs too - that is expansion imho.

 

Sadly, the SL clubs are now hell bent on getting 1/12 of the funding pie and if that goes to 1/15 or 1/16 then it is going to cause a lot of disquiet from traditional quarters. Signing away a 6-year television deal means any additional funding streams need to come from outside. That could, potentially, be a north american or French TV deal or competition sponsorship or something else.

 

I remember the ill-fated Gateshead season where SL clubs refused to give them the full share of the club funding and they had to exist of half. It didn't end well as we all know. That is why the question is put that do more people want Toulouse and Toronto to go away than have to grow and adapt to their potential rise to the summit.

Edited by Scubby

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If Toronto Wolfpack do make it to SL, would Premier Sports still be able to broadcast all their matches as they are doing for the next 2 years, or would Sky have sole rights to SL fixtures? Just wondered whether or not premier Sports could potentially be another funding stream if the Wolfpack made it to SL?

 

I'm not too clued up on how TV deals work in our sport.

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If Toronto Wolfpack do make it to SL, would Premier Sports still be able to broadcast all their matches as they are doing for the next 2 years, or would Sky have sole rights to SL fixtures? Just wondered whether or not premier Sports could potentially be another funding stream if the Wolfpack made it to SL?

 

I'm not too clued up on how TV deals work in our sport.

If they were in SL, they'd come under the SL broadcasting deal. 

 

And Premier Sports aren't exactly rolling in dough anyway. I doubt much money comes the game's way from them.

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If they were in SL, they'd come under the SL broadcasting deal. 

 

And Premier Sports aren't exactly rolling in dough anyway. I doubt much money comes the game's way from them.

 

Is that true with Catalans home games though? Perhaps Sky are paying extra for these under an addendum?

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Who's it a risk to?

How can you be sure Toronto will work?

They're from the other half of the world and it's a huge distance.

I'm their first supporter but won't deny it's not sure it'll work.

I'm talking about costs in the long terms.

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How can you be sure Toronto will work?

They're from the other half of the world and it's a huge distance.

I'm their first supporter but won't deny it's not sure it'll work.

I'm talking about costs in the long terms.

Costs to whom? Risks to whom?

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I want them both to succeed.

 

In fact, if both could provide financial security by way of a bond or similar, I would have them both in Super League.

 

The potential benefits of Toronto especially to the game overall are far in excess of any negatives from Championship clubs shouting "unfair".

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I disagree.

 

A cash rich club could be playing SL clubs within 18months and in Super League after 2 years. In the old system that was pretty much impossible, unless we did a Paris or Gateshead which I suggest we wouldn't do again.

 

This system is clearer on what a club needs to do. Whether we agree with the approach is a different point, but you can go up just by having a millionaire prepared to blow a relatively modest amount of money in sporting terms.

2 years is a hell of  a long time for investors.

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Costs to whom? Risks to whom?

What he said

Claims of risks are fine. But who's got those risks? I can't see risks from an RFL/SL/English perspective

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2 years is a hell of a long time for investors.

No it's really not

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meh. It really shouldnt be.

I know but it is. Toulouse's mayor's office won't invest much into Toulouse until they hit SL for example. They want return on their money that the CC can't offer so they won't invest.

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I want them all to flourish and do well....as I do with all RL clubs. Sod the "traditionalists" who claim Bradford are more deserving than London or any other non heartland team...if we are to grow as a sport/entertainment option, then we need to widen our appeal......I hope to see  french SL derby inside 5 Years and a North American one inside 10!

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Once we sort out plane speeds, SL/NRL merger will be he way forward. I envision a unified world league that, at first, is largely made up of English and Aussie clubs.

I think everyone wants Toronto to succeed. Maybe a few less want Toulouse to succeed, but on the whole most would.

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