Jump to content
Total Rugby League Fans Forum
Sign in to follow this  
Lowdesert

What now for Scotland RL?

Recommended Posts

Despite finishing well in the 4N and up to 4th in the world, what is happening? I've read very little press to indicate Scotlands national team 'success' and improvement has generated interest, or am I expecting too much? Maybe, but silly as it may sound they could get a strong mention on SPOTY. What would that look like?

Seems to me, the obvious choice to grow our Internationals, is from within the UK, and to get more people playing the game is through schools, colleges and Universities. Sky Try might just be the obvious link (for Primaries) and some form of SL professional input into the Scottish Unis within Edinburgh and Glasgow. There has to be budding pro's playing in those Uni's!

Are we just going to let opportunity go to sleep and wait for the negatives to outway positives once more or revisit Scotland and feasibility? What is happening?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ahem.... this is a good read on that very subject...

 

RUGBY LEAGUE WORLD MAGAZINE - ISSUE 428 - DECEMBER 2016
Available online now - In shops Friday 25th Nov 2016

Download the app or go to www.totalrl.com/rlw for the online edition
Order a copy by post from www.totalrl.com/shop or call 01484 401895 (Mon-Fri 9.30am-5pm)

 

rlw_dec16_600-1.jpg

 

WHAT'S INSIDE THIS ISSUE...

 

The Bravehearts of Scotland were the surprise package of the 2016 Four Nations and their captain Danny Brough graces our cover as we scratch beneath the surface to discover the true state of Rugby League north of the English border in a special, in-depth investigation. Is this the start of something big in Scotland, or a last hurrah? Find out inside.

.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you email me a free copy John, I can make some edits in the original post?

 

We can't do that I'm afraid as it costs money to produce the content and publish it.

 

We rely on people buying the mag so we can make more issues of it in future.


.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SL professional input into the Scottish Unis within Edinburgh and Glasgow.

 

The English SL clubs need to sort English player development out first before even thinking about the rest of the UK.


rldfsignature.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've watched a fair bit of Borders rugby union (sorry) in the last couple of years, and have been a little surprised by how much interest there is in rugby league. Not scientific, of course - just a snapshot gleaned from conversations with coaches, players and spectators. A league team in the Borders would be a good stepping stone towards the key population centres of Edinburgh and Glasgow.

 

Crowds are a big problem north of the Border. Spectators have deserted Scottish club rugby union since the advent of professionalism. Even the Edinburgh and Glasgow pro teams are struggling. Would a league side fare any better?

 

Sample attendances, based on head counts, for some union games I've watched in Scotland recently (make an interesting comparison with league crowds): Berwick 47, Biggar 165, Boroughmuir 300, Currie 400, Dumfries 170, Edinburgh Accies 260, Jed-Forest 190, Hawick 400, Heriot's 690, Kelso 280, Melrose 350, Peebles 185, Selkirk 230, Watsonians 150.

Edited by Hopping Mad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Crowds are a big problem north of the Border. Spectators have deserted Scottish club rugby union since the advent of professionalism. Even the Edinburgh and Glasgow pro teams are struggling. Would a league side fare any better?

You're half true here. Edinburgh's crowds were getting poorer and poorer as very few want people want to watch rugby in a dark, cold and cavernous Murrayfield and the last coach (thankfully he's gone) had the team playing some fairly dire rugby to watch. They can still get fairly big crowds for one of games though with attendances growing for the 1872 cup games against Glasgow. Edinburgh are trialling moving to a much more suitably sized stadium at Myreside so hopefully the match day experience can improve.

Glasgow on the other hand have been the real success story of professional rugby up here. They now have a good passionate support and have sold out the majority of their home games for the last two years with the team really outgrowing Scotstoun. Even though the team is a little poor at the moment their successes really have helped rugby grow in Glasgow.

And personally I'd say the club game (I.e. the local town and school clubs) has stabilised after years of decline but these sides always had it tough.

Edited by Snooping Unionite

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We can't do that I'm afraid as it costs money to produce the content and publish it.

 

We rely on people buying the mag so we can make more issues of it in future.

I bit the £3.99 bullet John. Good piece, but maybe not as in depth, for me, as I would have liked - especially regarding the Uni's and the schools.

Honestly didn't know the details after 2013, but I'm, frankly, appalled.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The English SL clubs need to sort English player development out first before even thinking about the rest of the UK.

Many SL clubs recognise taking charge of development leaves the future in their hands. Others seem to wait for an opportunity to capture a player, buy them from one of the aforesaid Clubs or rely on DR. Why should RL wait for them?

Just continuing to oppose expansion outside of the heartlands is, probably, the biggest reason we struggle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the main issue is the one of the relationship with RU, in Scotland. 
Will the Scottish rugby union federation/club "boycott" rl? 
Will they help them (given, as it has been proved by a lot of ru players playing rl in the summer, playing both codes makes you a more complete player with skills etc.) or simply stop them? 


Toronto Wolfpack Global Ambassador

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the main issue is the one of the relationship with RU, in Scotland. 

Will the Scottish rugby union federation/club "boycott" rl? 

Will they help them (given, as it has been proved by a lot of ru players playing rl in the summer, playing both codes makes you a more complete player with skills etc.) or simply stop them?

Depends what that relationship really is. The piece in RLW gives differing views between Aberdeen, where RL appears to be stand alone, Borders and Edin/Glasgow.

Other than at elite level, I have doubts (based on experience) whether a convivial relationship exists now, but certainly am of the mind that opportunity exists at school/college/Uni level.

Absolutely it will improve skill levels, providing the coaches are up to standard, and people forget - players just want to play.

I wouldn't mind getting involved myself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Depends what that relationship really is. The piece in RLW gives differing views between Aberdeen, where RL appears to be stand alone, Borders and Edin/Glasgow.

Other than at elite level, I have doubts (based on experience) whether a convivial relationship exists now, but certainly am of the mind that opportunity exists at school/college/Uni level.

Absolutely it will improve skill levels, providing the coaches are up to standard, and people forget - players just want to play.

I wouldn't mind getting involved myself.

There a huge difference between having relationship and being boycotted, that's my point. 


Toronto Wolfpack Global Ambassador

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Depends what that relationship really is. The piece in RLW gives differing views between Aberdeen, where RL appears to be stand alone, Borders and Edin/Glasgow.

Other than at elite level, I have doubts (based on experience) whether a convivial relationship exists now, but certainly am of the mind that opportunity exists at school/college/Uni level.

Absolutely it will improve skill levels, providing the coaches are up to standard, and people forget - players just want to play.

I wouldn't mind getting involved myself.

If it weren't for Aberdeen Warriors I think they'd have knocked Scottish domestic rugby league on the head by now

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've watched a fair bit of Borders rugby union (sorry) in the last couple of years, and have been a little surprised by how much interest there is in rugby league. Not scientific, of course - just a snapshot gleaned from conversations with coaches, players and spectators. A league team in the Borders would be a good stepping stone towards the key population centres of Edinburgh and Glasgow.

 

Crowds are a big problem north of the Border. Spectators have deserted Scottish club rugby union since the advent of professionalism. Even the Edinburgh and Glasgow pro teams are struggling. Would a league side fare any better?

 

Sample attendances, based on head counts, for some union games I've watched in Scotland recently (make an interesting comparison with league crowds): Berwick 47, Biggar 165, Boroughmuir 300, Currie 400, Dumfries 170, Edinburgh Accies 260, Jed-Forest 190, Hawick 400, Heriot's 690, Kelso 280, Melrose 350, Peebles 185, Selkirk 230, Watsonians 150.

 

People often mention an RL side in the Borders but I just don't see it. The Borders are the hotbed of Scottish RU and look at the above gates. They do go through the roof when adjacent towns play each other but this is basically the M62 without the M62 - lots of small towns that have got centuries of hating each other and fighting each other.... Only in this case with more actual warfare and deaths.

 

Instructive perhaps that when the SRU was setting up the franchises there used to be a third after Edinburgh and Glasgow. They were much of the opinion that given it was where the bulk of the players had usually come from they couldn't not have a franchise in the Borders.

 

Did the people of the Borders get behind the Border Reivers and make them a strong, viable all-conquering Scottish club side based in the very heartland of Scottish RU? Er....

 

*actually, there was a fourth franchise, Caledonia Reds, but while some still lament the death of the Border Reivers, you'd be hard pressed to find even a die-hard Union fan who remembered CR ever existed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People often mention an RL side in the Borders but I just don't see it. The Borders are the hotbed of Scottish RU and look at the above gates. They do go through the roof when adjacent towns play each other but this is basically the M62 without the M62 - lots of small towns that have got centuries of hating each other and fighting each other.... Only in this case with more actual warfare and deaths.

 

Instructive perhaps that when the SRU was setting up the franchises there used to be a third after Edinburgh and Glasgow. They were much of the opinion that given it was where the bulk of the players had usually come from they couldn't not have a franchise in the Borders.

 

Did the people of the Borders get behind the Border Reivers and make them a strong, viable all-conquering Scottish club side based in the very heartland of Scottish RU? Er....

 

*actually, there was a fourth franchise, Caledonia Reds, but while some still lament the death of the Border Reivers, you'd be hard pressed to find even a die-hard Union fan who remembered CR ever existed.

 

Couple of points: the days of attendances "going through the roof" for Borders RU derby games are long gone. Of the attendances I quoted above, the 400 at Hawick was for a 2015 derby against Melrose, the 190 at Jed-Forest was for a 2015 derby against Peebles and the 165 at Biggar was for a 2016 derby (sort of) against Kelso. Like your M62 analogy, mind.

 

The Border Reivers did not attract widespread support largely because they were based at Gala RFC. You don't need to spend very long in the Borders to discover everyone absolutely hates Galashiels.

 

But, as I said, there appears to be more interest in RL in the Borders than I would have imagined.

Edited by Hopping Mad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We can't do that I'm afraid as it costs money to produce the content and publish it.

We rely on people buying the mag so we can make more issues of it in future.

Hi John have just ordered a 6 issues order of you're mag.

Cant wait to read about the state of Scotish rugby league.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I were the Scottish RL I'd be trying to organise Tests against Wales and France at least before the WC. Even better would be vs Fiji or PNG as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

*actually, there was a fourth franchise, Caledonia Reds, but while some still lament the death of the Border Reivers, you'd be hard pressed to find even a die-hard Union fan who remembered CR ever existed.

Hope the mods don't mind me going off on a slight tangent, but I think you'd be surprised. The name Caledonia Reds is still used for the age-grade district rep sides at u20, u18, u16 levels (ie what used to be North and Midlands District).

And a Caledonia Reds senior district side has been revived and have played a few games, most recently against the South in November. This is, of course, from the club game below professional level.

As for the professional ranks, the SRU has said that they want a third franchise and that this would most likely be in the Caledonia district. An amusing incident occurred on the lunchtime news on Radio Scotland a while back. The ex Scotland international, John Beattie, now a news presenter, was interviewing the head of Aberdeen Asset Management about an economic issue. At the end he broached the topic of rugby knowing the guy was an ex player. He then 'mugged' the guy by asking would his firm back a revived franchise, perhaps based in Aberdeen. Caught off-guard, he responded enthusiastically and this became the top sports story of the week in Scotland!

That was a couple of years ago and there have been no concrete developments, but there was a genuine anger in the north and Midlands when their side was merged with Glasgow. Watch this space.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The budgets required to run one of the region representative teams for Scottish Rugby Union would be significantly more than what it would take to have a sustainable League One side in the Borders.

Whether or not the Borders region would support a League team is of course up to debate, however unlike other parts of Scotland, it has two things going for it.

The first is the two internationals hosted in the region in 2014 & 2015 drew 1.4K and 1.2K respectively at Netherdale. To find another crowd over 1K for a Scotland international, you have to go back to 2005 and to find a larger crowd, you have to go back to the 2000 RLWC.

As such the region is arguably as supportive, if not more than anywhere else that has hosted Scotland Rugby League.

Considering the WRL was able to run a self-sufficient Scorpion side with crowds of sub 500, there is a feeling that you could replicate a similar model. Yes it would mean that they aren't the most competitive, but from a Development side they would do wonders for the region.

The other thing going for them is location. They are the closest region in Scotland to RL infastructure and fans. All things that may help keep them running long enough.


signature.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Despite finishing well in the 4N and up to 4th in the world, what is happening? I've read very little press to indicate Scotlands national team 'success' and improvement has generated interest, or am I expecting too much? Maybe, but silly as it may sound they could get a strong mention on SPOTY. What would that look like?

Seems to me, the obvious choice to grow our Internationals, is from within the UK, and to get more people playing the game is through schools, colleges and Universities. Sky Try might just be the obvious link (for Primaries) and some form of SL professional input into the Scottish Unis within Edinburgh and Glasgow. There has to be budding pro's playing in those Uni's!

Are we just going to let opportunity go to sleep and wait for the negatives to outway positives once more or revisit Scotland and feasibility? What is happening?

Junior development must be the logical development for the future of Scottish Rugby League.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thirteen questions for David Collier clarified a lot for Scotland.


  Job's worth, job's worth more than my job's worth         

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thirteen questions for David Collier clarified a lot for Scotland.

Again this is going over old ground Oxo but Scotland don't meet the RLIF/RLEF criteria for full membership but because they've let it run for so long it's left the RLIF/RLEF between a rock and a hard place.


rldfsignature.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again this is going over old ground Oxo but Scotland don't meet the RLIF/RLEF criteria for full membership but because they've let it run for so long it's left the RLIF/RLEF between a rock and a hard place.

Doesn't worry them, or me, if Collier's answers are anything to go by.


  Job's worth, job's worth more than my job's worth         

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doesn't worry them, or me, if Collier's answers are anything to go by.

That's right. The RLW piece indicates that the RLIF will look at their case with some tolerance. Even now, theoretically, they only qualify for a lower status.

Some comments seem to be of the thought that RL in the Borders can't work, others say it's ideal. Certainly it is closer to regions where RL is played, whereas Aberdeen is well isolated. The reverse side of that is the Aberdeen 'story' appears to be stronger now. I can only ascertain that distance alone, for competition is the obstacle.

But the more I read, the more I'm led to believe RL can work there. Despite RFL funding being revoked, the Scottish RL are hanging on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...