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Deranged Drunk Guy

Season Ticket ( Membership numbers ) for SL clubs

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Just wondering if there is any figure of how many season ticket holders each Super League club has so far ?

Not sure what you guys in England call it Membership or Season tickets holders but anyhow wondering if anyone keeps track of this like NRL clubs and sites do. 

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For some reason Hull have now decided to call their season tickets memberships. From an unconfirmed source I've been told Hull have sold 7,000 'memberships'.

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Leeds normally hover around 10k in number of season ticket holders. Last season I think there were a few more, next season I imagine a few less.

Broadly I suppose they will correlate with actual attendances so once you get the data for three or four clubs you can probably reasonably extrapolate to the rest.

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7 hours ago, Deranged Drunk Guy said:

Just wondering if there is any figure of how many season ticket holders each Super League club has so far ?

Not sure what you guys in England call it Membership or Season tickets holders but anyhow wondering if anyone keeps track of this like NRL clubs and sites do. 

Point of order without wanting to divert the thread...

It's more of a distinction than you might think.  Memberships don't attract tax whereas season tickets do.  So if you're a smartarsed club owner trying to dodge HMRC then you'd better do it right.

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2 hours ago, deluded pom? said:

For some reason Hull have now decided to call their season tickets memberships. From an unconfirmed source I've been told Hull have sold 7,000 'memberships'.

 

Hull have had "Memberships" for years if memory serves me right.

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I think Wigan are around 10k which is up on last year at the same point. There was a big hike in prices last year (though they include the 8s now) so revenues will be way up on 2 years ago. 

 

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33 minutes ago, Padge said:

 

Hull have had "Memberships" for years if memory serves me right.

Nope, been season passes until the last couple of years when they introduced "memberships". You can be a "member" (stop it!) without having a season pass, you get match tickets cheaper but still have to pay although "full membership" is like having a season pass.

Think that's right, it was certainly the first year they did it anyway.

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Just as an aside, is it only Hull people who call them season passes rather than season ticket?

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Leeds have had different types of memberships for a few years, though I think I'm right in saying that has been changed for this season.

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Posted (edited)

Old as the hills in RL, RU and cricket, not so much for the association code of football. Both codes sold memberships rather than season tickets when it suited them.

"The dentist leads the way into his surgery. 'Sit in the chair,' he says. 'I've a member's ticket. That'll be how you traced me."

This Sporting Life (1960), page 16.

Edited by iffleyox

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On 1/8/2017 at 0:43 PM, deluded pom? said:

Just as an aside, is it only Hull people who call them season passes rather than season ticket?

and Americans. No idea why it's suddenly crossed the Atlantic.

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Surely "Membership" harks back to the days, not so long ago, when we actually did have members clubs, with all that they entailed.

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1 hour ago, iffleyox said:

and Americans. No idea why it's suddenly crossed the Atlantic.

It's not a sudden thing. I and every other Hull supporter I know always calls them passes.

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10 hours ago, iffleyox said:

and Americans. No idea why it's suddenly crossed the Atlantic.

In Canada (well, Ontario, it's a big place) it's always "seasons' tickets" for sports. Season passes tend be parks or theatre or other things, sports is always tickets. Then they'll do "flex packs" of a certain amount of games that you can use at any game, but these aren't counted in the number of STs.

Well except the soccer people, they sometimes use "season seat holder", but they like to be different.

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On ‎1‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 9:29 AM, Konkrete said:

Point of order without wanting to divert the thread...

It's more of a distinction than you might think.  Memberships don't attract tax whereas season tickets do.  So if you're a smartarsed club owner trying to dodge HMRC then you'd better do it right.

Surely if that was the case no clubs would offer season tickets. Imo unless there is a huge cost benefit in purchasing a ST the variable fixture dates within a working class/shift working fan base do not encourage the investment, unless we get to a supply/demand situation

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48 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

Surely if that was the case no clubs would offer season tickets. Imo unless there is a huge cost benefit in purchasing a ST the variable fixture dates within a working class/shift working fan base do not encourage the investment, unless we get to a supply/demand situation

Memberships come with voting rights.

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Indeed they do. And, as I recall, Bulls 1.2 before Bullscrash Volume 1 tried the same argument with HMRC.  And failed?  One of the reasons that was given, anecdotally (and hardly plausibly?), for the crash?

HMRC will surely be very wise to any schemes seeking to dress up a sale as a "membership"?  And, for example, the failure to confer any voting rights would surely be one significant indicator? 

Sounds all very Groundhog Day to me.

Edited by Adeybull
Changed 1.0 to 1.2...

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5 minutes ago, Konkrete said:

Memberships come with voting rights.

So if you became a member of say ANOTHER rl supporters club, that had a member/vote policy with a bi-product that membership gave you admission to the pro club foc but the supporters club donated all income to the pro club 20% vat could be gained?? I am pretty certain HKR etc don't have voting rights with memberships

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10 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

So if you became a member of say ANOTHER rl supporters club, that had a member/vote policy with a bi-product that membership gave you admission to the pro club foc but the supporters club donated all income to the pro club 20% vat could be gained?? I am pretty certain HKR etc don't have voting rights with memberships

I'm not sure I fully understand your question or what you mean by 'supporters club'.  This isn't about reclaiming VAT by the purchaser, as none would be transacted, but more about the VAT status of the product.  As I wrote several months ago, see Jaffa Cakes for details.

Memberships don't attract VAT but season tickets do.  I suppose there will be rules surrounding descriptions regarding a product sold, but the HMRC's concern is probably around tax legitimacy rather than marketing speak.

The club seemingly attempted to gain a 20% retained revenue advantage through masquerading season tickets as memberships.  All well and good in the drowning man scenario, but actually qualifying as a membership as defined by HMRC requires more that just a name tag.  For example.... If I were to call you a dick, then under HMRC rules you would have to fulfill certain criteria to qualify as a dick, it wouldn't be enough for me to just call you a dick.   I'm absolutely not calling you a dick by the way.

As you're 'pretty certain', and as a Leigh fan, tell us what you know about the intricacies of the HKR memberships regarding their declared tax status.. I'm not so sure I could even name a starting 13 for HKR (Bailey, Fitzroy, Shannon, Malin Etc ) let alone be 'pretty certain' of their tax affairs.

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HKR have sold more than last years 5200 memberships giving Hudgell the means to spend the full cap this year. The club are hopeful to reach 6000. Not bad from the Rovers faithful after relegation. 

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2 hours ago, Red robin said:

HKR have sold more than last years 5200 memberships giving Hudgell the means to spend the full cap this year. The club are hopeful to reach 6000. Not bad from the Rovers faithful after relegation. 

That's very impressive, fair play to you lot.

(I'll work on a punchline and be back later. ;))

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