Heads in the Sand

[Oxford]

The title of this thread is from an article by John Davidson on LoveRL URL below. It echos many of the feelings, sentiments and views expressed on here. It is a particularly depressing read, some would argue realistic and may of the things said are irrefutable but the picture it paints is one of a sport not only lost but bedraggled, out of love with itself and on the road to doom. By the time I'd read it I was ready to leave RL myself. See what you think........

http://www.loverugbyleague.com/news_24636-heads-in-the-sand.html

[Odsal Outlaw]

A good article which pretty much sums up how I feel about RL at the moment, we are without doubt a rudderless ship and I still have no idea who is able to remove the likes of Wood & Rimmer.

Without going too cross code I saw a news story yesterday about the rfu rolling out 100 artificial rugby pitches across the amateur game to grow participation and help clubs grow revenue.  If only ...

One of the few positives in 2016 was the emergence of Eric Perez at Toronto. I'd love someone like him running the RFL, outgoing, positive and willing to really sell the sport.

[GeordieSaint]

I always hear people saying there isn't enough money in the sport. The sport has more money in it than ever before with a £200m Sky TV deal, BBC TV deal etc plus clubs with multi-millionaire owners. The real problem with the sport is summed up perfectly by this quote:

"There is a lack of transparency and accountability at the top. There is a desperate need for strong leadership going forward."

[Dave T]

This type of article could be written at any stage of the history of rl and frankly some of the points are pathetic.

Leading on things like disciplinary and injuries is weird.

Talking about Wakey and Cas losing money on the Super 8s is disengenious as nobody factors in the uplift of hundreds of thousands of pounds of central funds - if clubs cant make money from staging games - tough. I seem to recall that Cas' point was not about a loss but the difference between the regular league game and the super 8s - not the same as a loss at all.

I also find it strange that we keep being told people are burying their head in the sand - all we hear is this kind of negativity. Over and over and over. I cant remember the last bit of positivity i read in the media.

It is depressing being an RL fan at times and tbh is almost enough to make me consider alternative pastimes.

[Dave T]

7 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

I always hear people saying there isn't enough money in the sport. The sport has more money in it than ever before with a £200m Sky TV deal, BBC TV deal etc plus clubs with multi-millionaire owners. The real problem with the sport is summed up perfectly by this quote:

"There is a lack of transparency and accountability at the top. There is a desperate need for strong leadership going forward."

What does that mean though?

What would good look like there?

[Odsal Outlaw]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

This type of article could be written at any stage of the history of rl and frankly some of the points are pathetic.

Leading on things like disciplinary and injuries is weird.

Talking about Wakey and Cas losing money on the Super 8s is disengenious as nobody factors in the uplift of hundreds of thousands of pounds of central funds - if clubs cant make money from staging games - tough. I seem to recall that Cas' point was not about a loss but the difference between the regular league game and the super 8s - not the same as a loss at all.

I also find it strange that we keep being told people are burying their head in the sand - all we hear is this kind of negativity. Over and over and over. I cant remember the last bit of positivity i read in the media.

It is depressing being an RL fan at times and tbh is almost enough to make me consider alternative pastimes.

But to me a lot of this leads back to the leadership at the top, this is the impression and the image they portray - one of incompetence which reflects across the game.  I think real change is needed at the top and only then will we start to see any sort of progress made.

[Dave T]

Just now, Odsal Outlaw said:

But to me a lot of this leads back to the leadership at the top, this is the impression and the image they portray - one of incompetence which reflects across the game.  I think real change is needed at the top and only then will we start to see any sort of progress made.

It wont though. I guarantee it. 'The sport' has never been happy.

[Odsal Outlaw]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It wont though. I guarantee it. 'The sport' has never been happy.

So you think we should stick with Wood and Rimmer et al.?

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Odsal Outlaw said:

So you think we should stick with Wood and Rimmer et al.?

Id be happy with change, but more because people wont let it go, i think we are too far gone.

I also think there should be a real streamlining of priorities by the RFL and fresh leaders can bring that new outlook.  We have limited resources but try and sort the whole world out.

[Odsal Outlaw]

6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Id be happy with change, but more because people wont let it go, i think we are too far gone.

I also think there should be a real streamlining of priorities by the RFL and fresh leaders can bring that new outlook.  We have limited resources but try and sort the whole world out.

Agree with the second paragraph. Even in things such as expansion, imagine if we'd focussed on one or two regions for last 10 years where we had lots of Dev officers, invested in facilities, built up amateur participation etc. Anyway ... 

On the first point ... it won't be too far gone until we decide the right way forward is to become the 13 a side version of rugby under guidance from the rfu. Although perversely they'd probably grow the game quicker!!!!

[JohnM]

Illustrates the almost nihilistic view of our game held by the most vociferous in our code. Theres almost 100, 000 fans who attend games every week and the 200,000 or more who watch it on TV who have voted otherwise with their wallets. The current Red Hall incumbents may not be perfect, but they are doing a better job than the naysayers ever could. Nor can these people come up with a viable alternative. Hethetington? I think Mo is ill, so hes not available. They are already going after the people behind the new Bulls regime. The demand for transparency just shouts the naivety of the critics, their lack of knowledge of the real world and how it works.  No doubt the seekers for transparency would be happy to have their finances,  dealings, contacts,  activities etc revealed for all to see. . 

[Northern Eel]

I'm asking for a friend, but how do you start a vote of no confidence in the RFL management and would anyone be likely to support it? 

[Oxford]

43 minutes ago, Dave T said:

This type of article could be written at any stage of the history of rl and frankly some of the points are pathetic.

Leading on things like disciplinary and injuries is weird.

Talking about Wakey and Cas losing money on the Super 8s is disengenious as nobody factors in the uplift of hundreds of thousands of pounds of central funds - if clubs cant make money from staging games - tough. I seem to recall that Cas' point was not about a loss but the difference between the regular league game and the super 8s - not the same as a loss at all.

I also find it strange that we keep being told people are burying their head in the sand - all we hear is this kind of negativity. Over and over and over. I cant remember the last bit of positivity i read in the media.

It is depressing being an RL fan at times and tbh is almost enough to make me consider alternative pastimes.

Like you I thought that it was Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose and piling on the things that annoy you or dislike to portray it all as some kind of pattern was good drama but hardly logical.

The lack of anything positive was also a key point and when journalism looks like a post on a Total thread it's not the game that's in trouble its the morale of its supporters that needs help.

The head in the sand argument is interesting because we have no idea most of the time what the RFL Knows or is doing in certain directions if any.

It is also interesting to me which threads attract most comment and at a glance it is the the direst, most hopeless and most easily targeted things that are the real honey for posters.

And I have to agree with JohnM as well as you Dave; who, what and where are the alternatives?

[Southern Reiver]

The RFL has a Strategic and Operational Plan 2015 - 2021. It would be worth reading it and considering if you agree with the goals, principles and where we want to be. It identifies areas of the sport that need investment and also states a full review will be carried out in 2018. There are targets identified and a set of values that the sport will be judged against.

If you want to hold the RFL to account, read the document and ask them how they are addressing these aspects, whether elements are on track, if they are not achieving and what the recovery plan is.

 

[roughyedspud]

Double post

[roughyedspud]

24 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Like you I thought that it was Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose and piling on the things that annoy you or dislike to portray it all as some kind of pattern was good drama but hardly logical.

The lack of anything positive was also a key point and when journalism looks like a post on a Total thread it's not the game that's in trouble its the morale of its supporters that needs help.

The head in the sand argument is interesting because we have no idea most of the time what the RFL Knows or is doing in certain directions if any.

It is also interesting to me which threads attract most comment and at a glance it is the the direst, most hopeless and most easily targeted things that are the real honey for posters.

And I have to agree with JohnM as well as you Dave; who, what and where are the alternatives?

Roger draper,sally bolton..

 

We need people who aren't failed club administrators 

[Exiled Wiganer]

If the perspective is the RFL and the position of the English game then I agree that we seem to be treading water. World wide we have never had it so good - we will see a World Cup later this year on a scale unimaginable only 10 years ago. We are moving towards (too slowly but edging forward) a proper RLIF for the first time in our history which ought to allow the RFL to focus more on domestic matters. I am hugely optimistic for the future. Domestically we seem no stronger or weaker than in many years. The talent seems spread more broadly. With a fair wind we could have 6 5 figure averages in the top league this year. Which is really something. We have the braodest geographic spread the domestic game has ever seen. And opportunities everywhere. 

That said, the incumbents at the top of the RFL have been there too long. Though even there it is only Wood and Rimmer rather than Draper and Bolton. 

[GeordieSaint]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

What does that mean though?

What would good look like there?

Someone has mentioned the RFL's Strategic Plan - who is holding Wood and Rimmer to account for that plan? Who is holding them and their staff account for failing to meet Sport England targets? Who's holding the Four Nations lead for failing to meet his targets? The RFL constantly make targets and largely fail to meet them in many areas of the game but nobody is held to account; we simply hear the same dits spun by Wood and his mates whilst the RFL Board sit there and don't really do anything other than endorse Wood's grand plan to remain in the job for as long as he can.

What would good look like is a great question; it'd be different for everyone and you know as well as I do that the game is and has always been fragmented. I'd personally like to see a governing body that is held accountable for failure and provides some clear decision making which benefits the whole sport. I'd like to fixed term stints of 4-5yrs for key RFL appointments (including the board) where the game has ability to remove people like Wood from post if they fail to meet their targets and display some real leadership. 

[fairfolly]

Northern Eel , Mr Koukash attempted last year but could not get the majority of clubs to support him.However it seems to me that several owners of the S.L. clubs especially seem to me to be voicing there displeasure with the progress of the game.Also the game is also tied to the Sky contract until 2022 so no increase in the monies will be forthcoming until then.I think if,as a lot of followers are predicting,Bradford is only the tip of the iceberg and other clubs are teetering on the edge the next Admin. could see another attempted vote of no confidence.I believe that the other member clubs want to hear exactly what their part in this acceptance of new owners at Bradford they played.Make no mistake I am glad they did but I would think that a lot of clubs will not be if they have been financially assisted in any way.

[BenGilesRL]

I switched off at the word 'clusterf*ck'.

 

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

1. Someone has mentioned the RFL's Strategic Plan - who is holding Wood and Rimmer to account for that plan?

2.Who is holding them and their staff account for failing to meet Sport England targets?

3 Who's holding the Four Nations lead for failing to meet his targets?

4. The RFL constantly make targets and largely fail to meet them in many areas of the game but nobody is held to account; we simply hear the same dits spun by Wood and his mates whilst the RFL Board sit there and don't really do anything other than endorse Wood's grand plan to remain in the job for as long as he can.

5. What would good look like is a great question; it'd be different for everyone and you know as well as I do that the game is and has always been fragmented. I'd personally like to see a governing body that is held accountable for failure and provides some clear decision making which benefits the whole sport. I'd like to fixed term stints of 4-5yrs for key RFL appointments (including the board) where the game has ability to remove people like Wood from post if they fail to meet their targets and

6. display some real leadership. 

1. Wood is answerable to the RFL Board. Not sure if Rimmer is answerable to Wood or the board.

2. The board.

3. I expect Dutton will be answerable to Wood - although Dutton confirmed that budgets had been hit.

4. Look at the last annual report and you will see that most targets were achieved. Now feel free to question the targets set but we cant keep spreading the myth that targets are being missed all over the place.

5. Being held accountable does not mean being replaced if some targets are missed. Responding to the challenges is equally important.

6. I dont believe CEO's should serve terms, but didnt Wood have his contract extended recently by the board suggesting they are holding him accountable? Maybe they value record financial performance during his tenure with year on year profit?

6. Whether we like it or not, Wood and his team displayed real leadership with the restructure and obtaining a record tv deal.

[Lowdesert]

IMO the people that continually focus their lives on writing negativity about the game, are in a small minority.  We have less people writing long pieces, such as the link Oxford provides, on positivety and success in RL - and they're is plenty.  We need more of that.

Frankly, I think people who spout how bad things are on this Forum, continually, incessantly, have never put a boot on, supported a club or shown genuine interest in the game, yet they continue to tell us how wrong everything is and how bad the game is.  Jealousy of not being involved or having a supporters passion probably the reason.

When do we ever hear all this tripe at the games themselves?  When do we ever hear it when watching the game as part of a crowd in a bar?  

[Oxford]

3 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

IMO the people that continually focus their lives on writing negativity about the game, are in a small minority.  We have less people writing long pieces, such as the link Oxford provides, on positivety and success in RL - and they're is plenty.  We need more of that.

Frankly, I think people who spout how bad things are on this Forum, continually, incessantly, have never put a boot on, supported a club or shown genuine interest in the game, yet they continue to tell us how wrong everything is and how bad the game is.  Jealousy of not being involved or having a supporters passion probably the reason.

When do we ever hear all this tripe at the games themselves?  When do we ever hear it when watching the game as part of a crowd in a bar?  

Hello LD I also posted a great one (URL) about Eric( the man who should be king) and the Wolfpack but no one turned up! However, I couldn't agree more with your post.

[BenGilesRL]

In my opinion the rules change a for in game action will make huge difference regarding opinions throughout the sport. People react to what happens on the field - and players able to get out of a sticky situation by tapping the ball dead - or kicking the ball dead and not being punished has been majorly responsible for this fatigue and lethargy.

Now these things have been fixed up I predict a climb in interest, the feeling of immediate importance in game and off field. 

I'm pleased to be able to say this as at the end of last season as many here will know I was very critical of RL and forecasting a further decline due to those reasons stated.

plus there's the interest impact of Toronto Wolfpack

as we.know - when it's North American people take interest - it's just the way it is

[Dave T]

Just now, Lowdesert said:

IMO the people that continually focus their lives on writing negativity about the game, are in a small minority.  We have less people writing long pieces, such as the link Oxford provides, on positivety and success in RL - and they're is plenty.  We need more of that.

Frankly, I think people who spout how bad things are on this Forum, continually, incessantly, have never put a boot on, supported a club or shown genuine interest in the game, yet they continue to tell us how wrong everything is and how bad the game is.  Jealousy of not being involved or having a supporters passion probably the reason.

When do we ever hear all this tripe at the games themselves?  When do we ever hear it when watching the game as part of a crowd in a bar?  

I am all for beibg critical and challenging on specifics, however im not a fan of the blanket criticism that is prevalent at the moment. Some of the arguments are so weak that they smack of an agenda.

For example - my personal view is that the RFL are making a bit of a joke of the England RL team and havent capitalised on the World Cup and momentum built up. You could actually write a detailed report on that and push for change at the top based solely on that - but when you just load articles with as many points as possible to try and undermine the rfl you just weaken your point imho.

I was very critical of the 4N for example but im happy to discuss specifics rather than lazily branding it a farce. Im experienced in delivering complex sales strategies and feel i can add something to the debate, but less so on things like player pathways tbh.

However even when the RFL published the good news that 80k kids had been exposed to RL through SkyTry this year - they were shot down on here by people saying that they jad to prove how many had then gone to amateur clubs - despite that not being the kpi.