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bamfordsbeans

No 27 in participation and 40% Reduction in 10 years.

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These are the alarming stats from the article on the main news site.

If these figures are correct(I have no reason to dispute them) ,it puts into perspective our media coverage and at the same time highlights  a lot of the issues in the game particularly playing standards.At the same time providing enough players of the right standard for academies and reserve sides is easily attributed to the above.

With such a reduction in playing numbers,is anybody answerable and what should be done to arrest this slide?

A further reduction of 40% in the next 10 years leaves us where?

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4 minutes ago, bamfordsbeans said:

These are the alarming stats from the article on the main news site.

If these figures are correct(I have no reason to dispute them) ,it puts into perspective our media coverage and at the same time highlights  a lot of the issues in the game particularly playing standards.At the same time providing enough players of the right standard for academies and reserve sides is easily attributed to the above.

With such a reduction in playing numbers,is anybody answerable and what should be done to arrest this slide?

A further reduction of 40% in the next 10 years leaves us where?

Much of that reduction could be put down to the RFL asking SportEngland to adjust the figures (SE england had based their figures around that and APS ). 

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The heartlands are doing just fine apparently. Nothing to see here.

 

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A single game of Rugby League is a bloomin' difficult thing to play, in and of itself - not many people are capable (or even interested) in the physicality of it. Add to that the training commitments required to complete an 80minute game, multiplied by an entire season, and it becomes even more problematic. By contrast literally any man, woman or child could pick up a fishing rod and sit by a pond for a couple of hours. The comparison is pointless.

That's not to say declining playing numbers is not an issue, of course it is, but it needs to put in context. Rugby League is almost certainly going to replicate the situation in the USA where kids play american football but, outside of the NFL, relatively few continue playing into adulthood.

From a player supply perspective we need, more than ever, to ensure we are active in schools and feeding those kids interested into our community clubs. I'd be more interested to see how many kids play RL and compare that to the numbers 10 years ago.

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Yes very concerning.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2017/02/15/popular-sport-england/rugby-league/

The same figures show Football and Rugby Union have increased their participation figures.

I was under the impression that all football codes were struggling for player numbers.

I keep getting told that union clubs used to field 2nd, 3rd, 4th teams and now only field one or two.

These figures suggest otherwise, and the problem is in with Rugby League.

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16 minutes ago, Rob said:

Yes very concerning.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2017/02/15/popular-sport-england/rugby-league/

The same figures show Football and Rugby Union have increased their participation figures.

I was under the impression that all football codes were struggling for player numbers.

I keep getting told that union clubs used to field 2nd, 3rd, 4th teams and now only field one or two.

These figures suggest otherwise, and the problem is in with Rugby League.

They do, but its been countered by increasing kids, schools, ladies and touch.

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A quick look at the figures suggests that the biggest fall off in numbers is at the 26+ age bracket, not the 'youths' as usually postulated.

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8 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

A quick look at the figures suggests that the biggest fall off in numbers is at the 26+ age bracket, not the 'youths' as usually postulated.

I've not seen the full report (link anyone?) but on the link I provided it was referring to adult participants only.

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43 minutes ago, nadera78 said:

A single game of Rugby League is a bloomin' difficult thing to play, in and of itself - not many people are capable (or even interested) in the physicality of it. Add to that the training commitments required to complete an 80minute game, multiplied by an entire season, and it becomes even more problematic. By contrast literally any man, woman or child could pick up a fishing rod and sit by a pond for a couple of hours. The comparison is pointless.

That's not to say declining playing numbers is not an issue, of course it is, but it needs to put in context. Rugby League is almost certainly going to replicate the situation in the USA where kids play american football but, outside of the NFL, relatively few continue playing into adulthood.

From a player supply perspective we need, more than ever, to ensure we are active in schools and feeding those kids interested into our community clubs. I'd be more interested to see how many kids play RL and compare that to the numbers 10 years ago.

I think open age participation figures give a better indication of playing numbers. All team sports (particular contact sports) have high drop-out rates from 16 - 22 years old. Also the way schools figures are collected can give a misleading impression. 

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4 minutes ago, dhw said:

I think open age participation figures give a better indication of playing numbers. All team sports (particular contact sports) have high drop-out rates from 16 - 22 years old. Also the way schools figures are collected can give a misleading impression. 

Schools figures are not used in the Active People Survey, its phone survey stats only.

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Just to say, when we have discussed these figures in the past a few comments usually crop up about the RFL fiddling the figures, people being counted twice or more, etc.  The APS is a random telephone survey, it does not use RFL figures or phone numbers and the smaller the sport the bigger the variation/noise.

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Just now, Bedford Roughyed said:

Just to say, when we have discussed these figures in the past a few comments usually crop up about the RFL fiddling the figures, people being counted twice or more, etc.  The APS is a random telephone survey, it does not use RFL figures or phone numbers and the smaller the sport the bigger the variation/noise.

That being said, they are probably the most consistent figures and removed NGB fiddling.  

(they just need to be used carefully and with full caveats is what I'm trying to say!)

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The game had its chance with Framework for the Future and then bottled it.  What we have now is managed decline.  Is anyone remotely surprised by these figures?  What is the master plan from the grand masters at Redhall?

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If you want to know what participation levels are really like talk to kit suppliers. They're the true bellwethers of organised club sports participation.

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2 hours ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

They do, but its been countered by increasing kids, schools, ladies and touch.

That's true, but the rfu for one are also giving money to clubs to encourage them to expand there OA teams.

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2 hours ago, Rob said:

Yes very concerning.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2017/02/15/popular-sport-england/rugby-league/

The same figures show Football and Rugby Union have increased their participation figures.

I was under the impression that all football codes were struggling for player numbers.

I keep getting told that union clubs used to field 2nd, 3rd, 4th teams and now only field one or two.

These figures suggest otherwise, and the problem is in with Rugby League.

The current (introduced in 2010) measure of 'sporting activity' is the equivalent of a minimum of three days per week of at least 30 minutes' activity each. It used to be whether you took part in a particular sport at least twice in 28 days. RL figures took a big hit overnight from that, prompting many "the end of the world is nigh" posts on this forum, as I recall.

I'm sure that RU figures are significantly larger than RL's, but then, they always have been, as our sport has taken far too long to see past the end of its collective nose when it comes to expansion.

Any improvements in RU numbers (well, those that aren't spun, inflated or plain invented) may have something to do with not retreating to the 'heartlands' and having the income from a lucrative international scene to splash about on spreading the word.

Edited by Futtocks
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Just a question if I may.

44,900 adults (over 16s) play rugby league on a weekly basis.

Given a team needs 13+4 players, I'd say a typical squad size would by let's say 22 players.

That's 2,040 teams.

That's 1,020 matches of rugby league played every weekend.

Really?

 

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RL really needs to find a way of doing what cycling did to swell their numbers. Mass get togethers are very popular, especially as the people who participate don't need to carry on with it, and instead can just do it for one day if they wish. Of those some undoubtedly carry on.

So mass 'cross training RL' or touch tournaments or skills workshops are the way to go - as everyone has to sign up for the day and it counts towards the numbers. It attracts headlines, and then a percentage of those people, and of the people who read about it take up the sport in one way or another. 

Keeping them regular means anyone who misses out and then wishes they could've done it gets another opportunity. They're also open to all ages so families can go, like the sorts you might find at an event as spectators who have a go at the fan zone activities.

Get it done, make it fun, and easily accessible. Take the numbers increase, and those who want to make it more serious will do.

Edited by BenGilesRL
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1 hour ago, marklaspalmas said:

Just a question if I may.

44,900 adults (over 16s) play rugby league on a weekly basis.

Given a team needs 13+4 players, I'd say a typical squad size would by let's say 22 players.

That's 2,040 teams.

That's 1,020 matches of rugby league played every weekend.

Really?

 

It includes tag, touch, RL in the park and things like wheelchair RL, If you declare it as RL (not 100% sure if they prompt people to separate RL and RU).  It also includes training. I think its wrong to take the figures and try and break them down into teams, the stats fall apart at that level.

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14 minutes ago, BenGilesRL said:

RL really needs to find a way of doing what cycling did to swell their numbers. Mass get togethers are very popular, especially as the people who participate don't need to carry on with it, and instead can just do it for one day if they wish. Of those some undoubtedly carry on.

So mass 'cross training RL' or touch tournaments or skills workshops are the way to go - as everyone has to sign up for the day and it counts towards the numbers. It attracts headlines, and then a percentage of those people, and of the people who read about it take up the sport in one way or another. 

Keeping them regular means anyone who misses out and then wishes they could've done it gets another opportunity. They're also open to all ages so families can go, like the sorts you might find at an event as spectators who have a go at the fan zone activities.

Get it done, make it fun, and easily accessible. Take the numbers increase, and those who want to make it more serious will do.

Not directly.  The RFL can sign up 1,000,000 people tomorrow and it wouldn't change the APS.  It only would change if a few of those people got a call.  The more people play the sport then the chances of that happening increases.  

There are also some who argue that RL should ignore the more social element of the sport (tag, touch, your suggestion, etc)  as it takes money away from finding 'real' players who play the 'real' game.  

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We can argue about the accuracy of the data all day, but it would be hard to disagree with the direction of travel.  Horrendous results.

Now can Big Nige resign?

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9 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

It includes tag, touch, RL in the park and things like wheelchair RL, If you declare it as RL (not 100% sure if they prompt people to separate RL and RU).  It also includes training. I think its wrong to take the figures and try and break them down into teams, the stats fall apart at that level.

Fair play. But given that if you add up all the teams from Tier 1 to 4, ie all conference, the old barla regional leagues, summer conference etc. You get a total of about 350 organised teams. About 7,700 players. That's a hell of a lot of informal tag, touch, park and wheelchair RL players.

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A full Field 13 a side + 4 reserves Touch Rugby League version of the game is what is needed as participation driver but it seems you can lead a Rugby League governing body to water but you cant make it drink.

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