Toronto's success is crucial for rugby league's growth

[Manfred Mann]

As everyone knows, British rugby league is massively under resourced, and cannot expand its national and international appeal under its own financial steam. It is also hampered by the deep prejudices of millions of British people in favour of football and rugby union. It may turn out that growth of rugby league may be easier in another country. Eric Perez certainly thinks so. 

The emergence of Toronto means a new international beach head will be established for the game without costing the RFL a penny. Thanks to the business genius of Eric Perez a large amount of money is being injected into the game with the intention of creating a new fan base, and potentially a new player pool, in Canada. If Toronto succeeds (and crowds of at least 7,000 for its first year home games will be a first big success marker) , then there is every reason to think that a second club will be created in Montreal. Eventually, assuming both Canadian clubs make it into Super League,, you will have a local derby and a multiplier effect on Canadian popular interest in the game. But further development of the game in north America will depend upon recruiting more north American players.

The crucial issue thereafter for developing the game in Canada is going to be building a junior system under the auspices of each of these clubs. Here the RFL must offer all its best advice, and some of its limited resources. If Eric Perez and whoever is in charge of Montreal can provide the funding, then the RFL, if necessary, needs to take development officers out of other locations in the UK and make them available in Canada. With two Canadian clubs climbing the divisional ladder in Britain, and their chances of entering Super League excellent, then the RFL must make sure that we take advantage of that to make the nation of Canada a serious contender in international tournaments. Junior development, along with recruitment from north American rugby union talent and NFL rejects, will be the key for Canada's emergence as a powerful rugby league nation. The benefits are potentially phenomenal for the game, in terms of sponsorship and public interest in future international tournaments. Having Canada as a serious international contender will not only enhance rugby league's appeal in Canada, but also in Britain, Australia and New Zealand. 

Perez has talked of subsequently emulating his efforts in Toronto by moving into the USA to create more teams. Boston, New York, Philadelphia and Florida have been mentioned. If this second international breakthrough is to happen and be successful there must already be a blueprint in Canada. So the RFL needs to be thinking about its advice and help for Toronto building junior structures right now. The NRL should also be consulted, and perhaps a joint operation under the auspices of the RLIF could be generated. But we must not expect Eric Perez to think of everything. He has already done more for building the appeal of rugby league internationally than anyone since the (unfortunately temporary) French emergence to lofty heights in the 1950s.

Eric Perez is a wonderful gift to rugby league. Let us do everything to ensure that he is successful from now on.

[The Bishop]

A year ago nobody in RL had ever heard of Eric Perez. Quite of few of them probably hadn't heard of Toronto either. This hajj to Perez is getting ridiculous. Lets see if he delivers a tenth of his what he promises before we all hail him as the the Messiah.

[JohnM]

That's the spirit!

[Manfred Mann]

3 minutes ago, The Bishop said:

A year ago nobody in RL had ever heard of Eric Perez. Quite of few of them probably hadn't heard of Toronto either. This hajj to Perez is getting ridiculous. Lets see if he delivers a tenth of his what he promises before we all hail him as the the Messiah.

Eric Perez has already delivered a lot, in terms of getting the team together and having it perform in League One and the CC. Whether he can deliver on Canadian public interest we will know more about starting in May.

[Gerrumonside ref]

I'm somewhere in the middle on this.

I'd like Toronto to succeed and the work that has been done there so far in terms of publicity and commercial deals seems impressive on the face of it.

Think I'd still like to see more proof of concept though before hailing it an unqualified success.

 

[The Future is League]

2 hours ago, The Bishop said:

A year ago nobody in RL had ever heard of Eric Perez. Quite of few of them probably hadn't heard of Toronto either. This hajj to Perez is getting ridiculous. Lets see if he delivers a tenth of his what he promises before we all hail him as the the Messiah.

Jealousy is a terrible thing. It eats you up inside and can make you ill and give you ulcers.It will also stop you having a good nights sleep

[THE RED ROOSTER]

If Toronto make it to Super League the the game will be boosted as the first transatlantic league competition and the possibilities are endless.

If Toronto fails then the spiral of decline in the game will continue

League fans should want Toronto to succeed

[Rob]

3 hours ago, Manfred Mann said:

If Eric Perez and whoever is in charge of Montreal can provide the funding, then the RFL, if necessary, needs to take development officers out of other locations in the UK and make them available in Canada.

I like most of what you say, but not this bit (even with your subsequent justification).

The RFL should offer training, support, advice and even a slice of TV revenue if their inclusion generates additional revenues for the league.

They should not however switch resources (financial or even strategic such as development officers) away from the UK, at the expense of the UK unless there is an extremely string business case where a return on the investment is all but guaranteed.

[nadera78]

3 hours ago, The Bishop said:

A year ago nobody in RL had ever heard of Eric Perez. Quite of few of them probably hadn't heard of Toronto either. This hajj to Perez is getting ridiculous. Lets see if he delivers a tenth of his what he promises before we all hail him as the the Messiah.

This troll only posts on Toronto threads.

[Oxford]

4 hours ago, nadera78 said:

This troll only posts on Toronto threads.

Why, is he an NHL fan?

I don't see Eric Perez in any way as a messiah but it's brilliant he's one of us. It's much more likely he'll be the new Marwan Koukash for the traditionalists and is already the devil incarnate for the trolls ! So in any event he's got people interested and talking (apparently with the exception of Whitehaven where he's the new John Paul Jones) so he's already delivered the demanded 10% of what he promised.

And as he's annoyed one of Aunty's presenters to boot, so you've got to love Eric #newmarwanwolfpackiscoming Perez!

 

[Toby Chopra]

My view is that Toronto in SL wouldn't be a gamechanger by itself. It won't (on balance) hurt, so I wish them well, but people shouldn't get their hopes up that it's going to massively boost the sport's fortunes back here.

What would be a gamechanger is if the growth of league in North America supercharged the US and Canadian national teams, so the international football brand was expanded. Internationals are the one thing that can cut through to a whole new set of fans across the country that club football just won't on its own. 

This takes years to filter through of course and the example of Catalans -> France national team is, at best mixed. But any support the British game gives should be focussed squarely on seeing a strong Canada team on the field in the next 5-10 years. 

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

8 hours ago, The Future is League said:

Jealousy is a terrible thing. It eats you up inside and can make you ill and give you ulcers.It will also stop you having a good nights sleep

 I am sorry but its common sense.   Everything is knee jerk as we are so starved of any attention in Rugby League we are suffering from the 'New Boyfriend\Girlfriend' affect.

Its like some subplot from sex in the city.

Lets just enjoy the extra media and start trying to see people as human beings and not iconic figures.

 

 

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

7 hours ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

If Toronto make it to Super League the the game will be boosted as the first transatlantic league competition and the possibilities are endless.

If Toronto fails then the spiral of decline in the game will continue

League fans should want Toronto to succeed

I wouldn't argue with any of that. 

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

7 hours ago, Rob said:

I like most of what you say, but not this bit (even with your subsequent justification).

The RFL should offer training, support, advice and even a slice of TV revenue if their inclusion generates additional revenues for the league.

They should not however switch resources (financial or even strategic such as development officers) away from the UK, at the expense of the UK unless there is an extremely string business case where a return on the investment is all but guaranteed.

Worth pointing out that the Canadian Rugby League and Toronto Wolfpack are separate entities.

So increased working with the grass roots in Canada with the CRLA would not be a bad thing.

[GaryO]

11 hours ago, Manfred Mann said:

If Eric Perez and whoever is in charge of Montreal can provide the funding, then the RFL, if necessary, needs to take development officers out of other locations in the UK and make them available in Canada

Quote

That just cannot happen for the sake of the game to succeed in Canada, it will take 2 to 3 generations maybe more for Canada and the USA to produce enough players to even have a proportion of say 50% of any teams squad of homegrown players capable of playing in SL.

Those resources you are so readily eager to give up will be required moreso in the UK because we will not only be trying to develop players for our own teams as there will be a demand on what we produce for the North Americas venture.

And someone said they need a viable international team in 5 to 10 years, that is impossible unless the heritage player rule is relaxed even further, or top players sell their souls for the residency rule, no way on earth could they produce enough quality players in that time scale to be viable.

If Perez is successful and he brings to the table all he aspires to of multiple teams from across the pond. Will any team of these teams being that they eventually make it to the SL be happy to have just got there, no, they will want to win it of course, that being so, be well prepared for a dilution in the quality of the teams we presently have in the SL, if that suits the general RL fans that's fine, but what if it is your club and your best players transfering, will you and more importantly your Chairman you know the guy that in most cases gives up his time and more importantly his money be happy with losing his best players, I think not. Come that time the brown smelly stuff will hit the round spinning object.

Anyone who considers that quality Rugby League players of top quality can be produced en-bloc from a virtually virgin territory in under 3 generations, even allowing for the best development officers worldwide being made available are either deluding themselves or do not understand Rugby League.

[RP London]

3 minutes ago, GaryO said:

11 hours ago, Manfred Mann said:

If Eric Perez and whoever is in charge of Montreal can provide the funding, then the RFL, if necessary, needs to take development officers out of other locations in the UK and make them available in Canada

Quote

That just cannot happen for the sake of the game to succeed in Canada, it will take 2 to 3 generations maybe more for Canada and the USA to produce enough players to even have a proportion of say 50% of any teams squad of homegrown players capable of playing in SL.

Those resources you are so readily eager to give up will be required moreso in the UK because we will not only be trying to develop players for our own teams as there will be a demand on what we produce for the North Americas venture.

And someone said they need a viable international team in 5 to 10 years, that is impossible unless the heritage player rule is relaxed even further, or top players sell their souls for the residency rule, no way on earth could they produce enough quality players in that time scale to be viable.

If Perez is successful and he brings to the table all he aspires to of multiple teams from across the pond. Will any team of these teams being that they eventually make it to the SL be happy to have just got there, no, they will want to win it of course, that being so, be well prepared for a dilution in the quality of the teams we presently have in the SL, if that suits the general RL fans that's fine, but what if it is your club and your best players transfering, will you and more importantly your Chairman you know the guy that in most cases gives up his time and more importantly his money be happy with losing his best players, I think not. Come that time the brown smelly stuff will hit the round spinning object.

Anyone who considers that quality Rugby League players of top quality can be produced en-bloc from a virtually virgin territory in under 3 generations, even allowing for the best development officers worldwide being made available are either deluding themselves or do not understand Rugby League.

I 100% agree that development officers should not be taken from the UK and sent to Canada or funding diverted etc.. this is Eric Perez's baby and he has talked about being able to fund it so he can fund it.. 

However, I dont agree with the 3 generation argument.. When it comes to even places in the UK I would agree with you if it were Jamaica I would agree with you.. the one thing Canada and the USA have got going for it is that there is a whole bunch of kids who have attributes of Rugby League players that are just playing a different game.. they fail to make it in that game and are basically abandoned by it.. You have to find the ones that are "intelligent" enough to be able to switch sports but that is, to an extent, a numbers game and there are A LOT of these people there.. 

Its not a quick fix world beaters at the next world cup but it isnt a 3 generation issue either I dont believe. I can see them being at least competitive at their own world cup if they can mobilise the locals and this set of people. 

[Lowdesert]

12 hours ago, Manfred Mann said:

As everyone knows, British rugby league is massively under resourced, and cannot expand its national and international appeal under its own financial steam. It is also hampered by the deep prejudices of millions of British people in favour of football and rugby union. It may turn out that growth of rugby league may be easier in another country. Eric Perez certainly thinks so. 

The emergence of Toronto means a new international beach head will be established for the game without costing the RFL a penny. Thanks to the business genius of Eric Perez a large amount of money is being injected into the game with the intention of creating a new fan base, and potentially a new player pool, in Canada. If Toronto succeeds (and crowds of at least 7,000 for its first year home games will be a first big success marker) , then there is every reason to think that a second club will be created in Montreal. Eventually, assuming both Canadian clubs make it into Super League,, you will have a local derby and a multiplier effect on Canadian popular interest in the game. But further development of the game in north America will depend upon recruiting more north American players.

The crucial issue thereafter for developing the game in Canada is going to be building a junior system under the auspices of each of these clubs. Here the RFL must offer all its best advice, and some of its limited resources. If Eric Perez and whoever is in charge of Montreal can provide the funding, then the RFL, if necessary, needs to take development officers out of other locations in the UK and make them available in Canada. With two Canadian clubs climbing the divisional ladder in Britain, and their chances of entering Super League excellent, then the RFL must make sure that we take advantage of that to make the nation of Canada a serious contender in international tournaments. Junior development, along with recruitment from north American rugby union talent and NFL rejects, will be the key for Canada's emergence as a powerful rugby league nation. The benefits are potentially phenomenal for the game, in terms of sponsorship and public interest in future international tournaments. Having Canada as a serious international contender will not only enhance rugby league's appeal in Canada, but also in Britain, Australia and New Zealand. 

Perez has talked of subsequently emulating his efforts in Toronto by moving into the USA to create more teams. Boston, New York, Philadelphia and Florida have been mentioned. If this second international breakthrough is to happen and be successful there must already be a blueprint in Canada. So the RFL needs to be thinking about its advice and help for Toronto building junior structures right now. The NRL should also be consulted, and perhaps a joint operation under the auspices of the RLIF could be generated. But we must not expect Eric Perez to think of everything. He has already done more for building the appeal of rugby league internationally than anyone since the (unfortunately temporary) French emergence to lofty heights in the 1950s.

Eric Perez is a wonderful gift to rugby league. Let us do everything to ensure that he is successful from now on.

Isn't it for the Canadian RL to receive the help and advice rather than just Toronto? Sure, we wish them well and Torontos success can help.  Has Perez done more?  Don't know.  He's certainly positive, forthright and champions the game but so are any number of coaches and owners in the game.  He's new, refreshing and taking his 'moment'.  The RFL maybe need to look at his bullish nature and the approach of Torontos commercial dept (dare I say marketing?).

Its going to be interesting seeing it all develop.

[GaryO]

21 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

I think it's a sign of the general negativity and lack of confidence within RL that makes people claim people are hailing someone as the new Messiah, when in fact all they're saying is 'well done that man'. We even get stupid claims that it's a sign that you want small local clubs to die out.

Personally I find it refreshing to have someone not focussing on what can't be done, and talking about what can be done instead. 

John, it is the easiest thing in the world to give a good theory and generate euphoria, but when time is taken to disect the parts of the whole and break them down into manageable chunks, we find that "talking about what can be done" suddenly becomes what will it take for this to be done?

There are a lot of old sayings that have stood the test of time for good reason, and one that I will apply to Mr Perez and his followers :

"Rome was not built in a day"

I am sure you or someone else will counteract that with another statement.

[GaryO]

6 minutes ago, RP London said:

I 100% agree that development officers should not be taken from the UK and sent to Canada or funding diverted etc.. this is Eric Perez's baby and he has talked about being able to fund it so he can fund it.. 

However, I dont agree with the 3 generation argument.. When it comes to even places in the UK I would agree with you if it were Jamaica I would agree with you.. the one thing Canada and the USA have got going for it is that there is a whole bunch of kids who have attributes of Rugby League players that are just playing a different game.. they fail to make it in that game and are basically abandoned by it.. You have to find the ones that are "intelligent" enough to be able to switch sports but that is, to an extent, a numbers game and there are A LOT of these people there.. 

Its not a quick fix world beaters at the next world cup but it isnt a 3 generation issue either I dont believe. I can see them being at least competitive at their own world cup if they can mobilise the locals and this set of people. 

And the bit about SL diluting quality, and fans reaction to losing their best players, don't forget this is something we are not used to since the transfer fee become unfashionable,  best players  useually get enticed to stay  with an increased or extended contract.

[RP London]

3 minutes ago, GaryO said:

And the bit about SL diluting quality, and fans reaction to losing their best players, don't forget this is something we are not used to since the transfer fee become unfashionable,  best players  useually get enticed to stay  with an increased or extended contract.

sorry I dont get what you are saying here, especially related to the post you quoted.

[Bob8]

The point was ignored on the other thread, but we actually have a surplus of trained rugby league players.  The NRL produces huge numbers en masse, and the extra are dumped in the British league, the NSW and Queensland leagues.  This is why there is a debate about clubs buying imports, they are dumped on the market like Chinese steel.  

I do not have time for the complaints about quality.  It seems to me to be evident, that half the players will be below average and the angst about how we can change this are at best misplaced.  

The thing that will ensure we have a supply of Canadian players in the future is the same thing that ensure it in Australia, athletes taking up the sport and having a training pathway to the top.  That need a viable club with the resources to spare.

[GaryO]

26 minutes ago, RP London said:

sorry I dont get what you are saying here, especially related to the post you quoted.

I stated in the post or inferred to that SL would be the breeding ground to furnish "North American" teams with the players to compete in the SL, perhaps I used the wrong terminology as the players would still be playing in the SL, I was trying to say how will it be relieved from those clubs losing their best players to this venture.

[Lowdesert]

Any success in Canada could have a bearing on UK RL players wanting to play in North America.  Less competition to find work and the quality of life abroad sometimes sometimes is better than the UK.  

Don't forget, RL players are getting more switched on to business during and after playing careers.  Is there more opportunity over there than here?

[RP London]

1 hour ago, GaryO said:

I stated in the post or inferred to that SL would be the breeding ground to furnish "North American" teams with the players to compete in the SL, perhaps I used the wrong terminology as the players would still be playing in the SL, I was trying to say how will it be relieved from those clubs losing their best players to this venture.

same as losing them to any club in the super league I think.. in the end it is just another club.. i do believe though that that will be short term and that they will get these converts up to speed and be able to have the playing in the medium term rather than long term. 

People may have their noses put out of joint that a Canadian team is taking their players but that is semantics as its just another Super League team if it gets there... and who knows if Tolouse are strong and Toronto are strong it may be as additional clubs rather than replacement clubs.. for that it is just too early to tell at the moment. 

[GaryO]

46 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

If it's so easy, why has nobody bothered doing it much then? Why did it take some guy from Canada, into RL for 5 minutes to get on breakfast TV when other clubs have been around 100+ years?

As for the Rome analogy, if it was down to RL, they would still be getting builders estimates for the place or saying 'don't bother, Union Maximus III is building a city elsewhere', so let's stick to our mud hut'. 

Sorry John, I think you have got what I was saying somwhat construed, I was generalising that it is easy to come up with ideas, it is putting those ideas into practise when it is realised what it will take to acheive them. LIKE where is his next set of players going to come from, if there are more clubs, where are there players going to come from, will the clubs over here be happy to lose their best players etc etc. 

Good on him he has got 5 mins on National TV but the reason he acheived that is because he is some guy from Canada, a new kid on the block, that is news, clubs who have been around 100 years are not news, it was not that his team beat a very below average semi-pro Rugby League team, or an amatuer team, it doesn't  take a genius to realise that.

And the Rome analogy is me saying to all those who forsee a thriving American League in 10 years or so, slow down.