Sign in to follow this  
Old Frightful

A difficult subject but here we go.

Recommended Posts

I know this is a sensitive topic that often produces heated exchanges but I think it needs discussing again as I was a bit lost for words when our local news came on BBC Look North tonight.

There are certain groups of people who travel from place to place, illegally parking up in their cars, vans and caravans wherever they wish, staying for days or weeks and then leaving without being prosecuted. They leave piles of rubbish behind costing local councils tens of thousands of pounds to remove, are often intimidating and abusive to local people and just recently local reporters and yet, seem completely beyond prosecution by the Police. They're generally known as travellers, I'm sure there's only a percentage that behave badly but nonetheless, those who do create a bad name for most of the rest.

http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/shoppers-anger-as-travellers-set-up-camp-at-next-in-kingswood-hull/story-30244373-detail/story.html

Their behaviour and their ability to seemingly get away with things local people would not be able to get away with gets people's backs up.

So the Humberside Police and Crime Commissioner Keith Hunter has decided to make a stand and threaten people.

http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/keith-hunter-wants-to-prosecute-people-for-posting-hate-about-travellers-on-facebook/story-30245490-detail/story.html

Whilst posting words on social media that could be construed as hate crime is obviously abhorrent, I think Mr Hunter would be better advised to find some Police Officers and local Councils with the bottle to start visiting these illegal camps and moving them as soon as they appear, just as they would do if your average Joe Public decided to illegally set up his caravan on private land somewhere.

If they started doing this successfully then who knows?, they may well find that the hate crime posted on social media no longer occurs.

The travellers say in their defence that if local councils provided them with sites then they'd use them. There are quite a few designated travellers' sites in this area, is there a minimum/maximum number that's acceptable or that have to be provided by law?

I know I'll probably get criticised for posting this and the mods might get twitchy and remove the thread but let's try and have a sensible discussion without abuse for as long as we can eh?

 

 

 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been banned twice already, so I'll just say that the camp pictured was in the village where I live.

http://www.cravenherald.co.uk/news/11421568.Illegal_traveller_camps_problem_is_back_to_haunt_Bradford/

The same troupe despoiled a school playing field, were moved on and promptly despoiled a nice park 300 yards up the road.

Why they aren't prosecuted for illegal tipping, I'll never know.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've known a number of travelers in my time and in my experience, like anyone else, there are good and bad. Where I live there is a pretty decent site where the same families have lived for decades. However, we still get our "visitors". Believe me, there's not much love lost between the regulars and the visitors if the visitors don't respect certain standards.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Griff9of13 said:

I've known a number of travelers in my time and in my experience, like anyone else, there are good and bad. Where I live there is a pretty decent site where the same families have lived for decades. However, we still get our "visitors". Believe me, there's not much love lost between the regulars and the visitors if the visitors don't respect certain standards.

I agree my dad has a friend from the traveller community who, shall we say has very little brotherly love towards a certain other section of the community and is in fact deeply discriminatory about them. I accept that in most places there isn't enough sites for them but also there are empty pitches on some sites because different groups / families don't mix. Travellers as a group can be just as divided as the wider community can be.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Be mindful of your posts when you're posting on this subject and it'll remain.  A lot of discrimination is caused by simply a gross lack of information about the different groups leading to ignorance and irrational fear of the wrong people.  As our little green friend Yoda says: Fear is the path to the dark side…fear leads to anger…anger leads to hate…hate leads to suffering.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Craig.

My main point in this thread is the Humberside Police Crime Commissioner making threats to certain people who might break the law by posting unlawful stuff on facebook about these rogue travellers yet not making any sort of threats to these groups of travellers who are constantly breaking the law in a way that, might be argued, affects far more people.

It's certainly good to read the positive stuff posted already about decent travellers which hopefully will allay any fears people might have that they're all being tarnished.

I was working on somebody's kitchen the other week and heard a couple of shouts of "hello" at the door. When I went to see who it was it was one of the local travellers asking if he could take the old extractor fan that was sat in the driveway. I said he could and thanked him for asking rather than just taking it. He looked like he wouldn't have dreamed of just taking it and we had a bit of a laugh about it. When I mentioned it to the son of the couple who's house it was, he said that the neighbours had already warned him that the travellers had been round a couple of times but had also said that nothing had been taken, even though there was a fair bit of stuff left in the drive.

It would be fantastic if, like in all walks of life, everyone was like that.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Illegal occupation of public car parks in East Lindsey has cost the residents over £40 k a year in legal costs in recent years. The perpetrators arrive, take occupation of the main car park in Mablethorpe, block off access, and then depart just before the injunction is served, leaving the council tax payer to pick up the cost of clearing up. However,  you as an individual park in the same car park without a ticket you get fined. The law is in urgent need of reform so that these "travellers" can be evicted without such costly,  time consuming and ultimately ineffective legal action. 

 

In any case, is it within the terms of reference of the PCC to tell the police what to do in such detail? 

Edited by JohnM
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I live adjacent to Shaw Cross Sharks' ground and they have quite illegally invaded the ground twice.  The first time it took weeks to get rid of them, the second time the club were prepared and they were gone in days.  Anyone who reads my posts on here will know that I hold fairly liberal views. But these people IMO seem to believe they have a perfect right to sponge off the host community,  they are IMO in the true sense of the word "parasites"   It's their way of life. They don't know any different.   Why they insist on a peripatetic lifestyle is beyond me.  But they do.  And when they depart from anywhere they leave an insanitary  mess.  Fortunately for Shaw Cross Sharks, Kirklees council cleared up the mess last time and the time before.  But of course that means Kirklees council tax payers footed the bill.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As some of you on here will know I've been involved with the Roma community for 30 years now, there isn't a "traveller community" as such which one or two posts above have referred to. There are English Roma travellers, Irish shelta travellers, "new age" travellers etc etc. There's little if any connection between them. Yes, absolutely there are anti social even criminal elements amongst these groups.

My wife 's family are Hungarian Kalderash Roma, they managed to get out of Hungary in the Chaos following the events in 1956, they travelled through Europe and eventually settled here. They are all employed, pay tax and NI and contribute to their own and the wider community.

Basically I'm trying to say there's not a one size fits all problem or solution here.

 

  • Like 11

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone who's ever been to Appleby Horse Fair knows there are some very distinct groups within the travelling community. Some are genuinely nice honest people, some are good folk who are just a little shady, and some are downright criminals who believe they're above the law. Unfortunately the latter group are what people think of first when they hear the word travellers. 

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to confess I read the first post and thought "oh dear here we go" but thanks everyone for keeping this thread civil and on topic. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Phil said:

I have to confess I read the first post and thought "oh dear here we go" but thanks everyone for keeping this thread civil and on topic. 

That's why I put the following in the first post mate.

On 4/3/2017 at 7:57 PM, Old Frightful said:

They're generally known as travellers, I'm sure there's only a percentage that behave badly but nonetheless, those who do create a bad name for most of the rest.

And I'm happy to see that there's not been any sweeping generalisations, just criticisms of individual groups.

The main point of the thread however, is that the Police take little or no action against these individual groups of rogue travellers and their illegal activities yet promise the threat of the full might of the law crashing down on people who might dare to criticise them with ill chosen words on social media.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of my hobbies is country walking and one of my pet hates is coming across the mess left behind by fly tippers.

There isn't much that makes me feel angrier, and I suspect that the vast majority of fly tipping isn't done by the traveller community.

I would support greater punishment and enforcement of the law against anyone who discards their rubbish in public places or the countryside, regardless of who is doing it.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

One of my hobbies is country walking and one of my pet hates is coming across the mess left behind by fly tippers.

There isn't much that makes me feel angrier, and I suspect that the vast majority of fly tipping isn't done by the traveller community.

I would support greater punishment and enforcement of the law against anyone who discards their rubbish in public places or the countryside, regardless of who is doing it.

About 5 years ago, I was out walking with the wife, somewhere we hadn't been before and we came across a camp of around 20 caravans with a couple of horses and a number of people just milling around, the camp was on a wide country dirt lane way out in the countryside.  My wife instantly wanted to turn back as she's unfortunately bought all the negative press, I pushed her to keep going to challenge herself.  The difference?  I could see the camp was neat, orderly, no litter, properly secured and safe cooking pits, etc.  If it'd been one of those camps with the litter everywhere that the media concentrates on then I'd have gone the long way round.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 04/04/2017 at 8:14 AM, Trojan said:

I live adjacent to Shaw Cross Sharks' ground and they have quite illegally invaded the ground twice.  The first time it took weeks to get rid of them, the second time the club were prepared and they were gone in days.  Anyone who reads my posts on here will know that I hold fairly liberal views. But these people IMO seem to believe they have a perfect right to sponge off the host community,  they are IMO in the true sense of the word "parasites"   It's their way of life. They don't know any different.   Why they insist on a peripatetic lifestyle is beyond me.  But they do.  And when they depart from anywhere they leave an insanitary  mess.  Fortunately for Shaw Cross Sharks, Kirklees council cleared up the mess last time and the time before.  But of course that means Kirklees council tax payers footed the bill.

It appears that they're back, I drove past the Shaw Cross playing fields this morning. It was occupied by approximately 20 caravans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Moose said:

It appears that they're back, I drove past the Shaw Cross playing fields this morning. It was occupied by approximately 20 caravans.

Spot on!  We walked to Dewsbury last night and saw them coming up the Leeds cutting.  Hopefully Shaw Cross will get them oved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These people as a whole do themsleves no favours by parking illigally and in a majority of cases leaving a mess behind.

A vast majority of these people are not even Romanys, but pretend they are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really don't give a toss how anyone or any group of people live their lives.

I do give a toss if their behaviour impacts on me and/or my community in a negative or criminal manner.

Locally, there is a reluctance to take on miscreants from such communities as the local authority And police are reluctant to disengage (stir sh it up) amongst that group of people. Which is how the cse issue went on in rotherham unchecked for so long.

Just ensure the law is enforced. I

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's be abundantly clear here, derogatory and insulting names for this group of people are not allowed and not acceptable on this forum.  I will be adding those I can think of and common mis-spellings to the sweary word filter.  I will treat anyone deliberately adding more as a gross breach of the forum's terms and conditions and consider an immediate ban, suspension or final warning depending on my subjective reading of the issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, The Future is League said:

These people as a whole do themsleves no favours by parking illigally and in a majority of cases leaving a mess behind.

Oh come on, where's your evidence?

Ah...

http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/travellers-booted-west-hull-playing-287258

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We've just had some on our village and talk about leaving a mess absolutely disgusting,and also using a small woodland for toilets- Disgusting !!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

More than 20 years ago I was lucky enough to become friends with a lad called Michael. Pretty normal fella, owned his own house we had quite a few great nights out (I think but memory is vague)!

Randomingly in conversation I mentioned about some issues I was having with some travellers, he said he would take care of it.

I thought it strange but within 24 hrs the issue had disappeared and never happened again.

As it turned out, Michael was the son of the "gypsy king" (his description, not mine) and this friend in a normal job, with a normal morgage without telling me, made a call and sorted it.

Travellers like everyone, have people within their community they wish they hadn't and people who embarrass them. 

Unfortunately there seems to be more these days who invade playing fields/parks/car parks and leave a mess and appear to be lawless.

I have been lucky enough to see the good and bad side of travellers, but we need to realise the difference and stop paying £20 to people at the door to take our rubbish and then complain when it is dumped in a park!

The gypsy community is as embarassed  by some of this stuff as others are angry!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



Rugby League World - Dec 2017

Rugby League Books On Sale Here

League Express - Every Monday