Phil Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 A young man jumped off North Bridge in Halifax last night, only a couple of days after another was talked down. Apparently suicide is now the biggest single cause of death in men aged under 45 . What on earth is happening to these men that makes them think there's no other way? Surely there's nothing that can't be resolved or sorted out, very, very sad. "Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Evans Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Sadly not in a minority of cases. If you have seen the documentary 'the bridge', it is a sobering experience. The doc has a time lapse of the golden gate in the top corner of the screen set over a couple of years. You can see folks just leaping off the bridge. It's heavy going stuff and forms part of the syllabus on some post graduate nursing courses. The Bridge https://g.co/kgs/tKtrS7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futtocks Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Despite everything, it is still hard for men to talk about feelings. Even the most metrosexual, hipster, on-trend type, let alone the average bloke. And despite social media and other modern connectedness in communications, it often needs proper human contact to make someone feel like they are not alone. Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hindle xiii Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 I hoped this year would be the breakthrough year for male mental health (hence my avatar homage to 'It's OK to talk'). I sincerely hope the phrase "man up" is consigned to the scrap heap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 5, 2017 Author Share Posted April 5, 2017 I suppose we're all to blame in a way, we tell our kids "big boys don't cry"etc its time to recognise that we do "Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graveyard johnny Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 don't thing the constant barrage of bad news on blanket coverage news channels 24/7 helps combined with high pressure and expectancy in careers, earnings and relationships with never the time to just take a step back - let out a sigh and think how mad the whole human race really is, am sure there are many different factors in every individual case but im sure many people male and female just feel totally suffocated by modern times see you later undertaker - in a while necrophile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futtocks Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 1 minute ago, Phil said: I suppose we're all to blame in a way, we tell our kids "big boys don't cry"etc its time to recognise that we do And the lingering hangover of "lad" culture means that many people just don't dare open up about emotions or personal stuff, for fear of ridicule. Even when it turns out their peer group are more open-minded than expected. Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 7 minutes ago, Futtocks said: And the lingering hangover of "lad" culture means that many people just don't dare open up about emotions or personal stuff, for fear of ridicule. Even when it turns out their peer group are more open-minded than expected. This is an awkward thing to write. I agree, but I think there is the other side to it. If you are in a healthy relationship with someone, I hope most men would comfort their women if they had a bad day and felt upset. Certainly, they would be very sympathetic to her having a cry and to be cuddled. Even in the more modern relationships, I do not imagine that applies the other way. The brutal truth is it is not just men being daft with not opening up, there is some sense to it. After a while, the danger is you lose the knack of how to do it to your mates. "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 I was lucky. I walked into the GPs and when she asked me what was wrong I just started crying. I had intended to say I'd been having a bit of trouble sleeping and concentrating (which, as a surface thing, would have been true) but I was caught off-guard by someone asking how I was. Now, I never felt suicidal as such but I was definitely in a place where it wouldn't have been completely surprising to end up there. Anxiety with depressive tendencies. It is, I can confirm, an absolute ballache. However, there is a truth to be said here as well. We can get some guys to talk. But it may not save them. Not that they're wired wrongly but just that 'talking' - because as has been said, blokes may not be very good at it - isn't always going to be the solution. I think we need to find ways of stopping suicide before it gets to the requirement to talk. Suicide by housewives plummeted once the gas in home ovens couldn't kill you (true story) - there has to be some thought about removing or easing the societal pressures that put people on the path to suicide. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futtocks Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 To quote Pink Floyd, "hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way". That was from a long time ago, but it still holds true for many. Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckn Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 1 minute ago, Futtocks said: And the lingering hangover of "lad" culture means that many people just don't dare open up about emotions or personal stuff, for fear of ridicule. Even when it turns out their peer group are more open-minded than expected. A good friend of mine was JUST caught before he died hanging himself. We've talked it out since and it was the lack of any future he saw. I won't go into the reasons but he just saw no hope for the future and decided he'd stop being a burden. At the time he was taken to A&E, he stayed in the hospital for three days then they released him as there were no mental health beds available anywhere in the East of England. Thankfully, his family are fantastic and provided the 24 hour care he needed to get back on his feet again but for many people that family safety net just isn't there. The "lad" culture thing just annoys me. I see it in the office, a largely young male IT office 25-35 on average where it's how macho they can be. The peer pressure comments and "jokes" are just stupid and encourage people to bottle things up. Then you get people expected to "man up" when asked to do yet more work when they're clearly burned out. A lot of what is modern pressure is the lack of certainty in a future that wasn't there 20-30 years ago. A secure job isn't that any longer. A good pension? Good luck with that. A state safety net? Cut year after year. Someone on zero hours work lives in a perpetual fear of a financial black hole next week if they don't get work, and try explaining that to the JobCentre when you're asking for benefits. The chances of a young couple, without wealthy parents, buying a house in their late 20s has almost gone and average rents are going up way above inflation. Our generation have pulled up the ladder behind us on things like free higher education. I'd not like to be a young man in today's society with the pressures inherent in it. I don't think there's an easy way to fix it though. Maybe if we stopped being such dicks to younger people and stopped whining about them wanting the same breaks we got. "When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 And, by the way, anyone who cracks a 'manflu' joke: you're part of the problem. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derwent Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 I was just thinking about this yesterday when I heard the news that a lad I've known for 40 years killed himself in Workington on Monday. An absolute tragedy and, in his case, history repeating itself as his own dad committed suicide at about the same age. Not sure what, if anything, can be done about it. I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 5, 2017 Author Share Posted April 5, 2017 "Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graveyard johnny Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 just out of interest what are the average rates of suicides nowadays? number of people per year in Britain? see you later undertaker - in a while necrophile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff9of13 Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Talking, and I mean proper talking with a professional trained in these things can be a huge help. I was very fortunate that I had private health insurance to pay for a course of one to one counseling when I needed it. I think as you get older it gets easier to say to those around you that things aren't great. I think the ability to speak your mind without worrying about what others think increases with age. Unfortunately by then it may be too late to save some. "it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark S Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 I was once the victim of 'bantz' when I asked for the vegetarian option at a works dinner. I might as well have been wearing dress and make up. I just fancied the veggie option over the meat dish, I couldn't see the issue myself. The fact men are pretty much ridiculed in the media these days donesnt help. In adverts men are made out to be useless, thick and nothing but a hindrance to their wife/partner. Then we are expected to 'crack on' despite being burnt out, il or generally knackered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futtocks Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Lots of good things said above. The first step - talking to someone - is the hardest in many cases. Whether you speak to a mental health professional, a family member, a friend or even a total stranger, the first part of opening up is a tough step for many people. Like other problems (gambling, addiction to substances), admitting to someone other than yourself that the problem exists is a big step, and often one of the biggest. Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartofGold Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Sorry I feel like an eavesdropper posting on this one but your comments are really thought provoking. At work over the last 15ish years we have lost more than a few young men (patients) mostly in the 24-27 range and a couple older with wives and children of their own. Preferred method for men being hanging. I can only remember two ladies both middle aged - one went into the canal and one into a reservoir. A male friend of my daughter's hanged himself on christmas day in 2007. It shocked us to the core as we had seen him that day and had text conversations with him. What I can't get my head around is how in god's name these people have come to that final moment. What could be so unsurmountable that caused you to make the final decision, take the pills, cut your wrist, throw yourself on a track or place the rope around your neck and end it all. The reality of those last few final seconds are something I literally cannot imagine. From the letters I type at work women very often quote their children/mum and dad as being the protective factor against taking the final step. It's horrible and the stresses of being young today are awful. Online gambling is just so easy, drugs, social media, the need to succeed, earn big money, drive a flash car, I pity them I really do. In the blink of an eye it could all be taken away. Be grateful always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futtocks Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Another, much more recent thing than "Lad" culture is the use of the knuckle-dragging yahoo's current favourite epithets, "snowflake" or "virtue signaller", for anyone who shows any concern, compassion or sympathetic feelings for others. That doesn't help at all. Nearly all of us have doubts, dark times and situations when we are very vulnerable, if not actually permanently damaged. The (thankfully) few people I've known imbued with total confidence and certainty are also the kind of people I'd consider dangerously sociopathic. I wouldn't trust them with a child, a pet, the family silver... or even a fake £1 coin. Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 26 minutes ago, Johnoco said: Yes, IMO it seems to be all geared to providing strong female role models and men as either wimps, losers or bullies. Look at the health campaigns like 'this girl can'.....don't men need exercise too? Etc etc I don't have a problem with This Girl Can because it's needed to address the fact that women are a lot less likely to take exercise than men. (Not to say they're shouldn't be a campaign for men as well at some point, there absolutely should be). Where I do have a problem is that I can't yet think - beyond State of Mind who do a good job but obviously with very limited resources - of an effective campaign on men's mental health. I have seen some but, to my mind, they're mostly terrible. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 11 minutes ago, Futtocks said: Another, much more recent thing than "Lad" culture is the use of the knuckle-dragging yahoo's current favourite epithets, "snowflake" or "virtue signaller", for anyone who shows any concern, compassion or sympathetic feelings for others. That doesn't help at all. Nearly all of us have doubts, dark times and situations when we are very vulnerable, if not actually permanently damaged. The (thankfully) few people I've known imbued with total confidence and certainty are also the kind of people I'd consider dangerously sociopathic. I wouldn't trust them with a child, a pet, the family silver... or even a fake £1 coin. The knuckle-draggers will include those who feel abandoned in life and do not see why anyone else should have it easier "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff9of13 Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 The only two people I've known personally to commit suicide were both middle aged men. The most recent of which was a very successful businessman who exuded confidence. He drove to a remote spot in his top of the range Mercedes and hanged himself. There is absolutely no way of knowing what is going on deep inside. "it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Willow Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 I worked with a guy who had depression, he told me he could kill himself at some point, his family knew how he felt, he had children but nothing would change the way he felt. The problem with mental health is the many layers involved and no simple solution. People seem to have different variants in their natural state of happiness with some having more extremes. I had hoped that this year would be a break though year, but it seems the pressures on the young increasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futtocks Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, Bob8 said: The knuckle-draggers will include those who feel abandoned in life and do not see why anyone else should have it easier And more than a few of those will live many years behind a facade of callous toughness until life gets too much, and they can't bring themselves to seek help like one of those "soft lads". Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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