Carney and abusive language

[Dave T]

So the story on Twitter is that Carney was sent off for calling somebody a Black C. Apparently he denies that and claims he called him a Fat C. Lets assume he said the latter.

So, is the latter acceptable? Interesting discussion between Rod Studd and Danny Lockwood on there. Rod thinks its unnaceptable whereas Lockwood dismissed him and said it is "a mans game".

Is there place in our game for this? Havent we moved on? Should players be subject to that abuse at work? Once again I refer to the male suicide thread and things like State of Mind. Shouldnt players be treated with more respect?

Im more in the Rod Studd camp on this one, and I dont often agree, but i find Lockwoods statement of rl being a mans game a disappointing one, particularly for somebody relatively prominent in RL circles.

Thoughts?

[JohnM]

Agree entirely.  Yes its a tough game with contolled physicality and agression,  but discipline is vital too. Already too much sotto voce abuses of officials so maybe this will serve as a warning.  Or maybe not.

[iangidds]

I am of the opinion that this is part and parcel of our game, its best in my opinion when its right on the edge.

its a matter of opinion where the edge is, but to see players giving the verbals and a real confrontation about to happen has made my spine tingle for decades.

i dont want to see the game further bastardised and we end up with five drives and a kick! Im not into racial abuse of course or Homophobic abuse but if we cut out the sledging altogether I would not be a fan.

[GaryO]

2 minutes ago, iangidds said:

I am of the opinion that this is part and parcel of our game, its best in my opinion when its right on the edge.

its a matter of opinion where the edge is, but to see players giving the verbals and a real confrontation about to happen has made my spine tingle for decades.

i dont want to see the game further bastardised and we end up with five drives and a kick! Im not into racial abuse of course or Homophobic abuse but if we cut out the sledging altogether I would not be a fan.

In the heat of the battle Ian, one wonders if some people have ever played the game.

[DoubleD]

It's all ifs buts and maybes but Bailey is known for winding up the opposition and therefore mitigating circumstances in any retaliation, although you can't condone anything racial

[Dave T]

7 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Agree entirely.  Yes its a tough game with contolled physicality and agression,  but discipline is vital too. Already too much sotto voce abuses of officials so maybe this will serve as a warning.  Or maybe not.

Just to clarify John i think the abuse was aimed at a rival player.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, GaryO said:

In the heat of the battle Ian, one wonders if some people have ever played the game.

. Sure it happens as people are human and as you say it is heat of tge moment, just like punching, but should it be ignored by a ref?

Games are broadcast live on tv, kids are there. 'Its a mans game' is outdated.

[Moc]

Zak was given two game club ban for calling a player a fag didnt he?

Is fat c*** better or worse than that?

I am asusming he said the latter, if it can be proved he said black c*** then he's in serious trouble

[GaryO]

9 minutes ago, Dave T said:

. Sure it happens as people are human and as you say it is heat of tge moment, just like punching, but should it be ignored by a ref?

Games are broadcast live on tv, kids are there. 'Its a mans game' is outdated.

If ever there was a period in the game that would turn people away from the game it was the 70/80's it was on TV but Kids still played the game, since those days the game has been sanitised by comparison, how far do you want to go Dave, after reading this and your comments on the Amor tackle and solutions, is it really the game you should be subjecting yourself to, it must be painful to watch.

[iangidds]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

. Sure it happens as people are human and as you say it is heat of tge moment, just like punching, but should it be ignored by a ref?

Games are broadcast live on tv, kids are there. 'Its a mans game' is outdated.

I can see why he sent him off but he may have miss heard him,

i was with Adam Fogerty the other week and he was telling me a story of him been done by the News of the world regarding him and a stripper.

He was playing for saints the following week and he called Lee Crooks an old C... And they were having severe verbals and they were looking forward to seeing each other at the next scrum!!! Just as they were about to pack down Crooksy said " listen foggy I dont mind having a fight with you but dont be playing with me #### in the scrum" 

do we want to be without this?

[iangidds]

Boobs beginning with T

[iangidds]

Both sets of forwards and the ref had to stop the game as they were laughing so much

[MZH]

I dont have too much problem with it really. A quiet word from the ref telling him to mind his language perhaps, because its disrespectful to your fellow pros, but it doesnt really do any harm. If someone calls me a fat **** at work I take it as a compliment, because I'm usually getting something much worse. It might sound old hat to talk about it being a mans game, but like it or not thats just how men talk to each other in that kind on environment.

If it was indeed fat that he said I would like to think Bailey speaks up for him, because he will rightly get the book thrown at him if he said black.

[Dave T]

19 minutes ago, GaryO said:

If ever there was a period in the game that would turn people away from the game it was the 70/80's it was on TV but Kids still played the game, since those days the game has been sanitised by comparison, how far do you want to go Dave, after reading this and your comments on the Amor tackle and solutions, is it really the game you should be subjecting yourself to, it must be painful to watch.

If only I was a real man like you Gary.

Defending things based on them being ok in the 70's is a slippery slope. The tv show It was alright in the 70's demonstrated that perfectly.

Back then I suspect calling someone a Black C was ok, but not now, things move on. Some people dont unfortunately.

[Dave T]

28 minutes ago, Moc said:

Zak was given two game club ban for calling a player a fag didnt he?

Is fat c*** better or worse than that?

I am asusming he said the latter, if it can be proved he said black c*** then he's in serious trouble

Didnt he get 5 matches for calling the ref that, surely that is worse?

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, MZH said:

I dont have too much problem with it really. A quiet word from the ref telling him to mind his language perhaps, because its disrespectful to your fellow pros, but it doesnt really do any harm. If someone calls me a fat **** at work I take it as a compliment, because I'm usually getting something much worse. It might sound old hat to talk about it being a mans game, but like it or not thats just how men talk to each other in that kind on environment.

If it was indeed fat that he said I would like to think Bailey speaks up for him, because he will rightly get the book thrown at him if he said black.

But i suppose the challenge is that 30 years ago people would call others much worse, n*****, poof, fag etc and that would have been justified in the same way. For most people that has now changed and our game is covered more thab ever on tv and almost every other spectator is a kid or female. 

[GaryO]

11 minutes ago, Dave T said:

If only I was a real man like you Gary.

Defending things based on them being ok in the 70's is a slippery slope. The tv show It was alright in the 70's demonstrated that perfectly.

Back then I suspect calling someone a Black C was ok, but not now, things move on. Some people dont unfortunately.

Now don't twist things Dave, I was not condoning things from yesteryear, I was making a comparison with how cruel the game was back then, but still kids were drawn to the game.

[Dave T]

Just now, GaryO said:

Now don't twist things Dave, I was not condoning things from yesteryear, I was making a comparison with how cruel the game was back then, but still kids were drawn to the game.

I wasnt saying that is what you said, but comparing to tge 70s is futile as things were quite frankly very different.

Even from when i was a kid parents are much fussier about what they will have their kids involved with, especially when there are so many other options. When i was growing up in the 80s a lad where i grew up wouldnt have dared go to a dance class for example.

Im split on what you do with incidents like this, but calling rl a mans game is not the right answer. Now the answer may be that the game accepts it as a heat of battle thing, or uses the yellow card, or fines or whatever, that is the poin of the thread - where is people's tolerance.

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, Saint 1 said:

I feel that there is a difference between racist/homophobic language and just general sledging, and policing general sledging is a very slippery slope. To me, sledging is just part of the game, and I say this as someone who has only ever watched the Super League era. 

Yes, racism and homophobic abuse is banned and i dont think anyone would disagree with that approach - thats why the thread is about calling someone a fat c. Or similar and how acceptable that is.

[Copa]

I loved it when Paul Gallen was called a drug cheat by a rival player.

https://au.sports.yahoo.com/league/a/35024874/the-melbourne-storm-low-blow-that-lit-sharks-captain-paul-gallens-fuse/#page1

 

but that doesn't drag in women's body parts, skin colours, disabilities etc

[DavidM]

1 hour ago, Saint 1 said:

I feel that there is a difference between racist/homophobic language and just general sledging, and policing general sledging is a very slippery slope. To me, sledging is just part of the game, and I say this as someone who has only ever watched the Super League era. 

Agreed . Definitely a line not to cross but body shape ? Come on now . A good sledge aimed well is part of the game , whether it's irrelevant or  pointless , it happens . The unacceptable stuff is rightly treated harshly and like it or not we have to be careful how much we sanitise things 

[Moc]

if he called him just a "c***" would we be having this discusion?

if he called him a "fat f***" would we be having this discusion?

 

 

[Segovia Carpet]

Agree Moc - I am sure that word is heard 100 times every match.

Two things here :-

1) Bailey is possibly the most despised player in England now he has taken up a new `home` in Canada.   Possibly despised more than Robert Hicks & James Child together.

2) Carney is of mixed race - his Dad is black and he was brought up with many black friends and plays with darker faced players at Salford with such as Ben Murdoch-Masila, Greg Johnson, Lama Tasi, Weller Hauraki plus the darkest of them all - Robert Lui.  Do you think he could live being in the same dressing room as those guys if he had referred to Bailey as a `Black C....`? 

[Dave T]

So the general opinion seems to be that it is fine to abuse other players on field.

Can I ask why?

[Moc]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

So the general opinion seems to be that it is fine to abuse other players on field.

Can I ask why?

 

Because its only words and grown men shouldnt get upset about a few verbals (assming its not racist/homophobic)

• Its a way for players to vent without smacking someone
• Its slegding/banter
• It can throw players off their game
• It can be because of frustration