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Old Frightful

Grenfell Tower Block fire in London.

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3 hours ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

It might not be shoddy work, it might meet and exceed the current standards.

(The Titanic exceeded the safety standards of the time...)

If there's a short-fall in standards that caused this and they would have been rectified in any revision then there's some previous Housing Ministers who really deserve to go to jail then.


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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9 minutes ago, ckn said:

If there's a short-fall in standards that caused this and they would have been rectified in any revision then there's some previous Housing Ministers who really deserve to go to jail then.

Strange how all these left-leaning people are suddenly experts not only on what happened at this block of flats but on fire safety generally.  Strange too how a cross-party committee didn't say anything about this report before now. 

Strange how everything is always the fault of the Tory party even before a single thing is known about the tragedy.

Jeremy Corbyn hasn't even realised that Parliament isn't sitting as he's demanding someone stands up in Parliament to answer for this apparent Tory negligence. 

It seems the tragedy in 2009 wasn't Labour's fault but the tragedy in 2017 is the fault of the Tories even though buildings and their regs have changed considerably in the intervening time.  

Fire Service people are reported as saying that they have not encountered anything like this fire before and it may be something completely unique that upends everyone's understanding of regulations and fire safety in general. 

One factor nobody on here has mentioned but which has been referred to in at least one online article is the tension between green/energy saving technologies and fire safety.  Apparently some energy saving materials can be flammable. 

Edited by Saintslass
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1 minute ago, Saintslass said:

Fire Service people are reported as saying that they have not encountered anything like this fire before and it may be something completely unique that upends everyone's understanding of regulations and fire safety in general. 

There have been issues seen before with cladding and UPVC windows spreading fire.  Near misses being ignored/dismissed/ or a lethargic response, is a all known factor in many a tragedy.

It might be the first time, but so far it looks like opportunities may of been missed.


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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11 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

There have been issues seen before with cladding and UPVC windows spreading fire.  Near misses being ignored/dismissed/ or a lethargic response, is a all known factor in many a tragedy.

It might be the first time, but so far it looks like opportunities may of been missed.

They may have but this may in fact be unique and therefore may lead to a wholesale re-examination of all sorts of things, including cladding and Upvc windows.  The fire hasn't even been put out yet.  It is going to be some time before anyone has any real idea about what happened.

 

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The fire isn't  out yet, there many fatalities . People critically ill in hospital, people still missing. People traumatised for life from what they witnessed.  Suddenly everyone is an expert able to say what happened and attribute blame. It didn't take long for Labour politicians to drag this appaling tragedy down into the gutter which they inhabit. We all know Corbyn for what he is, and now we know Harman for what she is, too.  Do these people have no shame?   Probably not.

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http://www.frmjournal.com/news/news_detail.government-endangering-tower-blocks-by-delaying-fire-safety-regulations-review.html?_tkn=5C081490-C09B-4665-B0B80214DC3746FA#.WUCr7Qm-NKk.twitter "Experts have warned that a government delay in reviewing building regulations could be endangering tower blocks throughout the UK." In addition to local authority cuts and cuts to fire services, I find it hard to believe that this combination has had 0 impact on fire safety. 

There is nothing wrong with expecting people to be held accountable for their political decisions that have a real impact on people's lives. Would it be wrong to discuss fire protection legislation in the wake of a fire?  I assume a few people here would argue so. 

Edited by Saint 1

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Absolutely horrendous, like some sort of nightmare come real.

How the emergency services deal with these things is beyond me. Many years ago I was thinking about trying to join the fire service until a fireman I knew told me what sort of things you might have to attend to (horrible stuff).

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Bloody hell, can't we keep politics out of it please?, even if the left/right wing media peddle it, all it does is show them up for what they are.

Death toll now at 12 and "sadly expected to rise."

A simply devastating event and one where all focus should be on sympathy for those directly affected and the media should be helping with publicising charitable efforts instead of pathetic, thoughtless point scoring for their own agenda.

Disgraceful.

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Before pointing blame etc, people should shut up and allowed the various people to do their job and help those who have suffered.  I Dont agree with Politicans etc demanding things and pointing Fingers when fire Crews are still working and sadly finding bodies. There's a time and place for Politicans and those on social media to try and be high and Mighty.  Today and the next couple of days is not right to do so in my opinion. 

Edited by Lounge Room Lizard

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12 minutes ago, terrywebbisgod said:

The people bringing politics into this disaster should hang their heads in shame. 

I get that but the key people bringing politics into it *whilst the building was aflame* were the angry eye-witnesses and survivors.  Those who have been, for years, saying that they thought their homes were a fire hazard.  Those who wrote that it would take a catastrophe for anyone to notice.  The avoidable and pre-warned burning out of their homes of over one hundred families.  The loss of life.  If that's not political then nothing is.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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30 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Absolutely horrendous, like some sort of nightmare come real.

How the emergency services deal with these things is beyond me. Many years ago I was thinking about trying to join the fire service until a fireman I knew told me what sort of things you might have to attend to (horrible stuff).

Hearing quotes from medical teams and fire fighters who say they've never seen anything so traumatic.  It sounds like an absolute vision of hell.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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A tragedy , more than likely there will be children amongst the deaths.

Very unusual to see a building go up so quickly , I think we will hear about all sorts of things that went wrong , besides the cladding,  especially the escape routes and stairs that filled with smoke.


Homer: How is education supposed to make me feel smarter? Besides, every time I learn something new, it pushes some old stuff out of my brain. Remember when I took that home winemaking course, and I forgot how to drive?

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i]Mr. Burns: Woah, slow down there maestro. There's a *New* Mexico?[/i]

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11 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Hearing quotes from medical teams and fire fighters who say they've never seen anything so traumatic.  It sounds like an absolute vision of hell.

And to quote myself: it was obvious at times that the rolling news reporters on the scene were struggling to keep it together.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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4 minutes ago, Ramite said:

A tragedy , more than likely there will be children amongst the deaths.

Very unusual to see a building go up so quickly , I think we will hear about all sorts of things that went wrong , besides the cladding,  especially the escape routes and stairs that filled with smoke.

We've had tower blocks for years and very few major fires. The only one I can remember was Ronan Point, where there was a gas explosion. Even then, only a quarter of the building was destroyed.

A major reason why fires didn't historically spread was the liberal use of asbestos-based fire doors, cavity spray insulation and millboard firewalls. I suspect that the bulk of  any asbestos presence in Grenfell Tower would have been stripped out under the refurbishment progamme.


Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police

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23 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I get that but the key people bringing politics into it *whilst the building was aflame* were the angry eye-witnesses and survivors.  Those who have been, for years, saying that they thought their homes were a fire hazard.  Those who wrote that it would take a catastrophe for anyone to notice.  The avoidable and pre-warned burning out of their homes of over one hundred families.  The loss of life.  If that's not political then nothing is.

My post was aimed at posters on here trying to score political points. 

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Thank you for your valuable contribution.

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Just now, Wolford6 said:

We've had tower blocks for years and very few major fires. The only one I can remember was Ronan Point, where there was a gas explosion. Even then, only a quarter of the building was destroyed.

A major reason why fires didn't historically spread was the liberal use of asbestos-based fire doors, cavity spray insulation and millboard firewalls. I suspect that the bulk of  any asbestos presence in Grenfell Tower would have been stripped out under the refurbishment progamme.

I used to work for the biggest manufacturer of Asbestos products in the World. They were branching out into that sort of external cladding ( it was called Duraform ) when the World woke up to the dangers of Asbestos and the plug was pulled on the project

Obviously I'm not defending the manufacture of Asbestos products.

Wether people like it or not this tragedy will have massive political ramifications in the near future.

There will be politicians at national and local level that will eventually have to be held to account for their actions or inactions.

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces

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Lakanal House fire disaster in a Labour Council area under a Labour Govt. Jail 'em all. 


Four legs good - two legs bad

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15 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Lakanal House fire disaster in a Labour Council area under a Labour Govt. Jail 'em all. 

Rather glib even by your usual standard , a very sad whataboutism.  

 

I wonder how many recommendations from Lakanal house have been implemented by anyone ? I think councils stock makes up about a quarter of flats in the UK.  Southwark council were fined three quarters of a million pounds they then went on a multi million pound project to upgrade the high rise block. The RRO which underpins fire safety allows for jail. 

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Homer: How is education supposed to make me feel smarter? Besides, every time I learn something new, it pushes some old stuff out of my brain. Remember when I took that home winemaking course, and I forgot how to drive?

[

i]Mr. Burns: Woah, slow down there maestro. There's a *New* Mexico?[/i]

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32 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Lakanal House fire disaster in a Labour Council area under a Labour Govt. Jail 'em all. 

Poor effort. The council took responsibility - whether the punishment was sufficient is a different question.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-39116172

 


"I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel"

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2 hours ago, Old Frightful said:

Bloody hell, can't we keep politics out of it please?, even if the left/right wing media peddle it, all it does is show them up for what they are.

Death toll now at 12 and "sadly expected to rise."

A simply devastating event and one where all focus should be on sympathy for those directly affected and the media should be helping with publicising charitable efforts instead of pathetic, thoughtless point scoring for their own agenda.

Disgraceful.

Indeed.  We do not know the full story.


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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Not the time for politics please. Thoughts with the deceased, injured, their families and friends. Lovely to see the local community rallying round.Praise to our courageous emergency services. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw it on the news.

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