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Future of Scottish Rugby League

West Leeds Riviera

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Dave T

Dave T

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, JoneslessBishop said:

Yes Dave I believe so, but when I say people I meant people on here, who suggested a Scottish venue to provide legacy, and cited Aberdeen as the most RL location.

Most on her just about qualify as people.

I was one who campaigned for a Scottish venue to be used, and I was involved in the debates on here, but I don't recall Aberdeen being championed strongly.

All previous Scotland internationals have been played at Glasgow, Edinburgh and Galashiels, they were certainly pushed.

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West Leeds Riviera

West Leeds Riviera

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Why is the national team playing in Cumbria though? Just because it's close to the border and the RFL want to keep Cumbria happy?

There didn't seem to be a pathway for young Scottish players to go on to sign for pro clubs. 

Surely playing in Scotland would promote RL as well as the national team. In a perfect world someone would set up a pro team in Scotland and enter them into L1 but there seems to be a lack of interest as well as money and resources 

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Scubby

Scubby

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The sad reality of this is that these clubs are often one and/or two men shows. Volunteers who show amazing determination and enthusiasm to create a club and make a go of it. When they decide to call it a day it can literally be the end for the club if the second level support is not in place.

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John Rhino

John Rhino

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Posted
10 hours ago, nadera78 said:

I realise the RFL's withdrawal of funding a few years back hit the SRL (and others) hard but, when you look at the strides being made in countries with zero resources, it does put the lack of progress - or should that be collapse? - in the domestic game into context. Very poor state of affairs.

Just a small point and I'm sure you know this. But just in case others don't the decision was forced on the RFL by Sport England. Funds going to Scotland had to be stopped as they have their own funding body.

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Celtic Rooster

Celtic Rooster

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15 hours ago, Spidey said:

What teams have folded recently in the NW? I know it was an issue at the start of Summer Rugby but as the seasons have gone on this trend seems to have stopped and teams have started returning and second teams actually playing games

I'm looking further back into my records Spidey than the start of Summer RL. Amateur RL peaked in 1986/87 season. There are not a quarter of the teams around the country now as there was then. I watch amateur RL every Saturday and almost every club I visit is complaining that "players don't want to train these days", "players don't want to play these days" or "Nobody wants to help out at the club these days". Ive just quit my role at my local amateur club this season after 18 years, hardly missing a game. I had been actively involved in amateur RL since 1987 but there just isn't the loyalty any more. Every club I visit I see the same old faces doing all the work and complaining that they wish they could retire but nobody is willing to take over.

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Spidey

Spidey

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6 minutes ago, Celtic Rooster said:

I'm looking further back into my records Spidey than the start of Summer RL. Amateur RL peaked in 1986/87 season. There are not a quarter of the teams around the country now as there was then. I watch amateur RL every Saturday and almost every club I visit is complaining that "players don't want to train these days", "players don't want to play these days" or "Nobody wants to help out at the club these days". Ive just quit my role at my local amateur club this season after 18 years, hardly missing a game. I had been actively involved in amateur RL since 1987 but there just isn't the loyalty any more. Every club I visit I see the same old faces doing all the work and complaining that they wish they could retire but nobody is willing to take over.

Okay fair enough. It sounded like you were saying teams were still folding now. Thankfully things are improving on the whole. There are still issues at individual clubs. We've had it at ours but I think we've rode that and came out stronger. Our younger age groups are stronger than ever just need to ensure they make it through all the ages now 

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nadera78

nadera78

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1 hour ago, Celtic Rooster said:

I'm looking further back into my records Spidey than the start of Summer RL. Amateur RL peaked in 1986/87 season. There are not a quarter of the teams around the country now as there was then. I watch amateur RL every Saturday and almost every club I visit is complaining that "players don't want to train these days", "players don't want to play these days" or "Nobody wants to help out at the club these days". Ive just quit my role at my local amateur club this season after 18 years, hardly missing a game. I had been actively involved in amateur RL since 1987 but there just isn't the loyalty any more. Every club I visit I see the same old faces doing all the work and complaining that they wish they could retire but nobody is willing to take over.

The same has happened to every team sport in the country.

"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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Celtic Rooster

Celtic Rooster

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6 hours ago, Spidey said:

Okay fair enough. It sounded like you were saying teams were still folding now. Thankfully things are improving on the whole. There are still issues at individual clubs. We've had it at ours but I think we've rode that and came out stronger. Our younger age groups are stronger than ever just need to ensure they make it through all the ages now 

Well Spidey, I respect your views, and from previous posts you are clearly a passionate supporter of the game but I can't agree with you that the numbers are increasing. Just look at the number of unfulfilled fixtures every week. I will say that the junior section at my local club is thriving stronger than it has for many years but I can't remember the last time our open age side benefitted by more than 2 or 3 from any under17's/18's team. Once they reach 16 to 18 in this area the game loses them to other interests. Manchester United on the doorstep doesn't help.

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superten

superten

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should look to try and get eight team league based in Glasgow and Edinburgh areas. Maybe four teams in or around both cities. Tap into universities . For me Wales,  Scotland and Ireland should all aim for eight team leagues. Also play in challenge cup and the Ipro cup.    

Chief Crazy Eagle

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yipyee

yipyee

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On 12/07/2017 at 6:41 PM, Mumby Magic said:

It seems strange that we aim for Wales for clubs and semi pro clubs but Scotland goes amiss. Didn't Partick attract 4 figure attendances. Cumbria for 4 Nations was a joke too. A ground within Edinburgh or Glasgow would have attracted the Aussie students or ex-pats.

 

 

Surely the argument for games in Scotland was legacy and therefore attracting Scottish folk?!?!?

Also why is there a myth that ex pats will watch their national team if they are in town?

I worked with 2 Aussies who thought rugby and cricket was rubbish and they only liked baseball!!

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DoubleD

DoubleD

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On 15/07/2017 at 1:29 PM, TheLegendOfTexEvans said:

It's not so long ago people were getting giddy about putting a pro-club in Aberdeen we really need to learn to start putting the foundations first before we running away with ideas in our game.

 

The same could be said of Toronto though Tex, sometimes it needs a top down injection to be able to generate stable foundations

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TheLegendOfTexEvans

TheLegendOfTexEvans

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42 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

So you don't think Toronto is working?

I dont think build and they will come works.

I prefer organic growth and ground work being doing first.

Toronto was based on the knowledge that canadian international games were bringing in crowds of the size they are getting now for years beforehand .  That and it had a large marketing budget.  It has enough USP for Eric Perez to grab headlines.

Clearly Perez knew Toronto well enough to believe Rugby League would work there.  

Toronto is a huge financial gamble but if its David Arygle's money i dont mind.  

But using a top down model for growth its bit like saying we are going on dragons den want 100k to get rich by inventing the next fidget spinner. Or a tech company inventing the next facebook.   That 1000 - 1 shot works well for companies like google as they sufficient resource to afford failure. But we are a sport looking to downsize as we are losing income streams.  Not in a position to lose money.

Rugby League has a long history of rushing into things, only to see them fail.  The sport never gaining any real lasting growth beyond a few years.

Picking an area with no previous record of Rugby League support without doing any ground work or having a business model that can organically grow. I would say no it is not the way to go.

So if we pick portugal as a random example and said lets have Lisbon in the Super League we give them some of the sky money to setup i would say no.

I am hugely in favour of any expansion, but we need to do it properly.

Or risk having no expansion of the game.

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ojx

ojx

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15 minutes ago, TheLegendOfTexEvans said:

I dont think build and they will come works.

I prefer organic growth and ground work being doing first.

Toronto was based on the knowledge that canadian international games were bringing in crowds of the size they are getting now for years beforehand .  That and it had a large marketing budget.  It has enough USP for Eric Perez to grab headlines.

Clearly Perez knew Toronto well enough to believe Rugby League would work there.  

Toronto is a huge financial gamble but if its David Arygle's money i dont mind.  

But using a top down model for growth its bit like saying we are going on dragons den want 100k to get rich by inventing the next fidget spinner. Or a tech company inventing the next facebook.   That 1000 - 1 shot works well for companies like google as they sufficient resource to afford failure. But we are a sport looking to downsize as we are losing income streams.  Not in a position to lose money.

Rugby League has a long history of rushing into things, only to see them fail.  The sport never gaining any real lasting growth beyond a few years.

Picking an area with no previous record of Rugby League support without doing any ground work or having a business model that can organically grow. I would say no it is not the way to go.

So if we pick portugal as a random example and said lets have Lisbon in the Super League we give them some of the sky money to setup i would say no.

I am hugely in favour of any expansion, but we need to do it properly.

Or risk having no expansion of the game.

I can see both arguments. However, just having a few northern expats playing the game in a muddy field, will not showcase the excitement, speed and skill of the game to Torontonians. It will be interesting what path Toronto will follow for development.

Clubs like Hemel seem to have very successful development programs, but (correct me if I'm wrong), they need a team from Dewsbury to field a team. They play in front of only 100 spectators.

I think both are valuable experiments, and like you say if someone else is putting up the cash, there is little for the RFL to lose.

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DoubleD

DoubleD

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45 minutes ago, TheLegendOfTexEvans said:

I dont think build and they will come works.

I prefer organic growth and ground work being doing first.

Toronto was based on the knowledge that canadian international games were bringing in crowds of the size they are getting now for years beforehand .  That and it had a large marketing budget.  It has enough USP for Eric Perez to grab headlines.

Clearly Perez knew Toronto well enough to believe Rugby League would work there.  

Toronto is a huge financial gamble but if its David Arygle's money i dont mind.  

But using a top down model for growth its bit like saying we are going on dragons den want 100k to get rich by inventing the next fidget spinner. Or a tech company inventing the next facebook.   That 1000 - 1 shot works well for companies like google as they sufficient resource to afford failure. But we are a sport looking to downsize as we are losing income streams.  Not in a position to lose money.

Rugby League has a long history of rushing into things, only to see them fail.  The sport never gaining any real lasting growth beyond a few years.

Picking an area with no previous record of Rugby League support without doing any ground work or having a business model that can organically grow. I would say no it is not the way to go.

So if we pick portugal as a random example and said lets have Lisbon in the Super League we give them some of the sky money to setup i would say no.

I am hugely in favour of any expansion, but we need to do it properly.

Or risk having no expansion of the game.

Don't get me wrong, I agree about groundwork and having solid foundations should be the basis for development.

However my point being is that Toronto have proved it doesn't have to be the only way.

You say Toronto is a huge financial gamble but on what basis? How do you know they're not covering their costs? They have sponsorship covering flights as well as other sponsors, they have multiple TV deals (which maybe FOC), they have 6-7k paying spectators at home games with large ancillary sales of food, drinks and merchandise. 

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TheLegendOfTexEvans

TheLegendOfTexEvans

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28 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

Don't get me wrong, I agree about groundwork and having solid foundations should be the basis for development.

However my point being is that Toronto have proved it doesn't have to be the only way.

You say Toronto is a huge financial gamble but on what basis? How do you know they're not covering their costs? They have sponsorship covering flights as well as other sponsors, they have multiple TV deals (which maybe FOC), they have 6-7k paying spectators at home games with large ancillary sales of food, drinks and merchandise. 

I mean gamble for David Argyle, not the RFL to clarify.

 

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DoubleD

DoubleD

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Posted
49 minutes ago, TheLegendOfTexEvans said:

I mean gamble for David Argyle, not the RFL to clarify.

 

He didn't see it as much of a gamble and they've clearly done their homework. I'd be surprised if they're not already breaking even, or at least very close to

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