Charlie RL Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 Tony smith is reported as downbeat: http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/41271778 what do you think? I see freshness and excitement eg Cas, Wolfpack, qualifiers, World Cup coming etc ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 Surely it's the coaches who determine a lot of this by the style of rugby they play. Is he blaming himself for lack of excitement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allora Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 That was a very negative interview from a man that has earned a living from the Sport. He could have kept such negative opinions to himself, I doubt it will do much for his employment opportunities should he decide wants to stay in the Sport after all. Talent is secondary to whether players are confident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 Obvious sour grapes and not what I'd have expected from Tony Smith. Warrington's scoot, scoot, scoot style of play and turnstile defending were hardly attractive either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxmanc Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 Tony Smith needs a new challenge to rediscover his enthusiasm. I'm sure getting involved with the second Canadian team might do the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleD Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 To be fair, I actually agree with him. The decline in viewing figures, and general malaise for the elongated structured competition, together with the decline in media coverage, amateur game, lack of international calendar and slow and low quality standard of some SL games are all issues. That said, there are positives to be had - Cas style of play and the rise of Toronto to name 2. It does feel like the game needs an injection of enthusiasm from somewhere though because there's not a lot of positivity around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lounge Room Lizard Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 His point is not just about playing but the game as a whole. But touching on the playing side of things I think he is right. Wigan, Catalans, Leigh, Widnes, Huddersfield, Wakefield etc for me as a neutral, are not exciting to watch. As for the state of basic core skills they are very poor, maybe the worst they have ever been. We have players that struggle to pass and tackle correctly. We have England players that have poor skills. You look at the skill set of Australian players compared to British players and there is a big gap in my opinion. Maybe some of that is down to the clubs seemingly treat Academy and Reserve grade as a nuisance rather than investing time and money so that the players of tomorrow have a better chance of being quality players. I was not surprised England U16 (featuring mainly lads at Sl Clubs) lost to Wales U16s. The basic skills were lacking in a big way. The game is in a mess as he says. Crowds are down- 1400 at Salford for one game! The NRL has crowds down in a big way. We have most clubs hanging on a thread to survive. We can usually expect a couple of clubs to be in a fight to survive going under. Super League and the game is not exactly in great shape and has little to offer potential moneymen or new supporters. The game is in a rut and needs looking at and changes made. When you look at Super League and the game as a whole now compared to 10 years ago I think there is a big difference and not for the good. The question is are people at the RFL and the Clubs as well as others both in the Pro and amateur game willing to admit things are not good or are they happy to ignore the warning signs and do something about it. Sadly I think we will just see the game happy to make short cuts without thinking about the potential damage done- i.e No Reserves, No real money invested at Academy level etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, Saint 1 said: To an extent yes. But the style of rugby for many is determined by what is effective, and what is effective is determined by the rules. If a coach hates the way wrestle has taken over Super League, he can't just opt out of coaching this, his team would struggle too much defensively. Tell that to Daryl Powell, just saying ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gates1 Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 16 minutes ago, Saint 1 said: Yeah Cas are brilliant in attack, really entertaining to watch. They still clearly put a lot of work into the wrestle and slowing the PTB down in defence. True regards Cas defence we slow the ptb down as do all teams. But I guess the point is other teams wrestling when defending against Cas doesn't prevent Cas been entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Prendle Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 1 hour ago, Lounge Room Lizard said: The question is are people at the RFL and the Clubs as well as others both in the Pro and amateur game willing to admit things are not good or are they happy to ignore the warning signs and do something about it. Sadly I think we will just see the game happy to make short cuts without thinking about the potential damage done- i.e No Reserves, No real money invested at Academy level etc. According to many on here, the RFL are doing a great job, and Nigel Wood is unfairly maligned. Our problem seems to be that we are too ready to make excuses for mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoneslessBishop Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 Tony is disillusioned due to wites performance, and he is probably telling himself a couple of things: 1) I want to play good rugby and no one else does, and 2) My season was destroyed by Chris Sandow leaving. The financial disparity between the NRL and SL means we only get the 'problem kids' who end up upping sticks because they are problem kids'. Maybe some truth in both, but feels like him feeling a bit sorry for himself. Hopefully roll on 2019, when we will have had a good World Cup, a good England v NZ series (and mid-season international), and Toronto in a 14 team SL which sees enthusiasm at a more international and commercially viable sport without the heartlands in uproar at having one of their own replaced by TWP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender1 Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 2 hours ago, Lounge Room Lizard said: His point is not just about playing but the game as a whole. But touching on the playing side of things I think he is right. Wigan, Catalans, Leigh, Widnes, Huddersfield, Wakefield etc for me as a neutral, are not exciting to watch. As for the state of basic core skills they are very poor, maybe the worst they have ever been. We have players that struggle to pass and tackle correctly. We have England players that have poor skills. You look at the skill set of Australian players compared to British players and there is a big gap in my opinion. Maybe some of that is down to the clubs seemingly treat Academy and Reserve grade as a nuisance rather than investing time and money so that the players of tomorrow have a better chance of being quality players. I was not surprised England U16 (featuring mainly lads at Sl Clubs) lost to Wales U16s. The basic skills were lacking in a big way. The game is in a mess as he says. Crowds are down- 1400 at Salford for one game! The NRL has crowds down in a big way. We have most clubs hanging on a thread to survive. We can usually expect a couple of clubs to be in a fight to survive going under. Super League and the game is not exactly in great shape and has little to offer potential moneymen or new supporters. The game is in a rut and needs looking at and changes made. When you look at Super League and the game as a whole now compared to 10 years ago I think there is a big difference and not for the good. The question is are people at the RFL and the Clubs as well as others both in the Pro and amateur game willing to admit things are not good or are they happy to ignore the warning signs and do something about it. Sadly I think we will just see the game happy to make short cuts without thinking about the potential damage done- i.e No Reserves, No real money invested at Academy level etc. What the most worrying thing we have a lot of true to life quotes like this but I keep asking why? "Why doesn't the governing body act?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Skipper Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 I agree with Smith, but I just wonder if his stale feeling and apathy filtered through to the players without him realising it. “There is perhaps no better a demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world.” Carl Sagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabbitRhinoovOZ Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 The games in big trouble I'd say less so in SL than in the NRL when I really think about it. The people running the sport in this country have no idea who there core supporter base is or what attracted them to the sport or what's really turning them off the game and worst of all they do not care. The extremely low finals crowds are a direct result of salary cap RL so you have poorly supported clubs finishing in the top 8 , Parramatta & Brisbane are the only two positives in this years top 8 and it makes the sport look like a absolute joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsi42 Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 Well I'm board of it and attendances would indicate others feel the same. The problem is at the top it's a disgrace how backwards the game has gone, just the general presentation of the the game is poor. Compare the superleague show to the Nfl show for a good example Jez is our show dry. Salford have all sorts of problems but just try finding some local media coverage. the manchester evening news hasn't had any coverage for years either in print or online. Our super league stars are ignored by the general media we have no celebrities/personalities in the sport. For all the money spent in the super league era has been wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gates1 Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 48 minutes ago, Saint 1 said: Yeah that's a fair comment. I suppose my argument (and I'm half playing Devil's Advocate here) would be that while Cas can do that as one of the most skillful/best coached teams, a lot of teams can't. Often the team that wins isn't the most skillful or the one with the best attack, it's the one that is best at getting numbers into the tackle, slowing the PTB down and getting a good body position into contact in attack. As a coach (particularly with the prospect of relegation), you therefore end up prioritising what is effective and having to put a lot of emphasis on the wrestle, even if you don't want to. A good example here is Saints, who actually don't employ a wrestling coach (according to a disciplinary report from a year or two ago). This might be the right thing to do morally, but how many fans care about that if we consistently get slower PTBs and have to defend faster PTBs as a consequence? True enough. I think we probably need to accept that the wrestle has become integral. I think we could mitigate its impact on the enjoyment of the game by introducing a second ref on the field to try and help clean the ptb. I don't mind the wrestling, it has some tactical intrigue, as long as it is done legally and referred consistently. One thing I have noticed over the last few years is that teams are developing certain players to win the collision and earn a quick ptb as a platform to attack. It seems to have become a part of set plays and can be pretty devastating in terms of creating space (when 4 defenders have joined the tackle to wrestle). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lounge Room Lizard Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 19 minutes ago, RabbitRhinoovOZ said: The games in big trouble I'd say less so in SL than in the NRL when I really think about it. The people running the sport in this country have no idea who there core supporter base is or what attracted them to the sport or what's really turning them off the game and worst of all they do not care. The extremely low finals crowds are a direct result of salary cap RL so you have poorly supported clubs finishing in the top 8 , Parramatta & Brisbane are the only two positives in this years top 8 and it makes the sport look like a absolute joke. Nice of you to forget Melbourne. Theres only Brisbane who averaged a bigger crowd than the Storm this year. And Melbourne hosting a Sydney team got 22K while the Sydney games failed to get above 16K. Melbourne also have again brought through a host of youngsters who never looked out of place once. I do agree the NRL has some major issues that for whatever reason they seem to be ignoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabbitRhinoovOZ Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 14 minutes ago, Lounge Room Lizard said: Nice of you to forget Melbourne. Theres only Brisbane who averaged a bigger crowd than the Storm this year. And Melbourne hosting a Sydney team got 22K while the Sydney games failed to get above 16K. Melbourne also have again brought through a host of youngsters who never looked out of place once. I do agree the NRL has some major issues that for whatever reason they seem to be ignoring. While the Storms crowd last week was better than the abysmal crowds in Sydney lets get serious this current Storm side is probably the best side assembled in the modern era of the game and they where playing against a popular club who play an attractive style of footy yet the you couldn't fill a small AMMI park for the game. RL is in very big trouble and believe me it's not going to get better, People would be gob smacked to know just how uninterested the general public have become and how few of the kids who 10-20 years ago would have played RL now want nothing to do with the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lounge Room Lizard Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 8 minutes ago, RabbitRhinoovOZ said: While the Storms crowd last week was better than the abysmal crowds in Sydney lets get serious this current Storm side is probably the best side assembled in the modern era of the game and they where playing against a popular club who play an attractive style of footy yet the you couldn't fill a small AMMI park for the game. RL is in very big trouble and believe me it's not going to get better, People would be gob smacked to know just how uninterested the general public have become and how few of the kids who 10-20 years ago would have played RL now want nothing to do with the game. 20K Melbourne fans if not more as I very much doubt Parra brought 2000 and yet you think thats poor and you have posted before that we shouldnt have a club in Melbourne! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabbitRhinoovOZ Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 17 minutes ago, Lounge Room Lizard said: 20K Melbourne fans if not more as I very much doubt Parra brought 2000 and yet you think thats poor and you have posted before that we shouldnt have a club in Melbourne! That's right and you suggested my club be relocated but what's that go to do with the poor attendances in the finals? If your happy with the best side you'll ever see only attracting 20k to a block buster home final then good for you but don't expect me to be impressed they should have sold that small stadium out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lounge Room Lizard Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 6 minutes ago, RabbitRhinoovOZ said: That's right and you suggested my club be relocated but what's that go to do with the poor attendances in the finals? If your happy with the best side you'll ever see only attracting 20k to a block buster home final then good for you but don't expect me to be impressed they should have sold that small stadium out. Even during your Premiership winning season you only just averaged more than a team that play in a City where League didnt exist 20 years ago!Souths v Melbourne 2014 19.888 - 14.894 2017 10.903 - 18.375 I fail to see the logic in you not wanting to have a team in Melbourne which gets more than any Sydney team and helps brings in more money to the game than any Sydney team. If a team was to relocate out of Sydney my option would be Souths or Wests. Souths since rejoining the NRL have hardly been a great success on or off the field that you seem to imply. I dont think Souths or Wests relocating to Perth for example would be a bad move. They still get to play 6 times or so in Sydney a year. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But the fact is the game as a whole whether in the UK or Australasia is not doing as well as it should and there are major problems at both Pro and Amateur level in both Australasia and Europe that need addressing but are being seemingly ignored not just by the governing bodes but many clubs. Its easy to blame the RFL or ARLC/NRL for many of the problems within the game. However the clubs as well as a number of people also are at fault but refuse to see this or change. Often the games positive points like growth in new Nations, Toronto, the success story of Melbourne is largely down to certain individuals rather than the way the game is managed or decisions voted on. The negatives in both Australasia and Europe is often down to poor decisions being made, Clubs thinking about themselves rather than the game as a whole and at times Governing Bodies failing to see the problems and acting on them. I would also say that the Clubs, especially in Europe, have caused many of the problems that the game has rather than the Governing body. As far as I am aware the Clubs in both the NRL and SL have voted against and challenged a number of things the RFL and NRL/ARLC suggested. I dont think we can blame the Governing bodies completely for the state of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacko45 Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 5 hours ago, DoubleD said: To be fair, I actually agree with him. The decline in viewing figures, and general malaise for the elongated structured competition, together with the decline in media coverage, amateur game, lack of international calendar and slow and low quality standard of some SL games are all issues. That said, there are positives to be had - Cas style of play and the rise of Toronto to name 2. It does feel like the game needs an injection of enthusiasm from somewhere though because there's not a lot of positivity around About right this comment, Rugby league is slowly getting worse but like Garry Schofield says we're not allowed to put in down or tell the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnyia Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 Not seen many classic games for a few years in super league, it's scrappy and not very free flowing anymore, maybe it's because I've been watching the Catalans! I don't get the thing of looking who's on tv this week or making sure I'm home for the TV game anymore, if it's on I'll watch it , but it turns into background noise most weekends , I watch it like Union fans now, chat for a few minutes do something check my emails etc then watch for a few minutes then repeat! Sometimes the half times are so long I turn over and don't end up turning back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 1 hour ago, scotchy1 said: Honest question, how many people need to speak out on the state of the game and where it is heading before we accept there is something rotten in the state of Denmark? Well, that is more true than you know. "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 41 minutes ago, Jacko45 said: About right this comment, Rugby league is slowly getting worse but like Garry Schofield says we're not allowed to put in down or tell the truth. He is also of the faction that is against changing anything. "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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